There are many components to this question. It really is multi-level and lengthy. It comes down to:
Fear by women of “men” invading their last personal space while living in a male-dominated society.
Fear by women of “men” invading their sisterhood as interlopers or transgressors.
Fear by women of “men” seeing their naughty parts (not that I or any of my girlfriends has EVER seen such in the ladies’)
Fear by men that “men” will be in the ladies rooms in a private place with their girlfriends, daughters, and wives, and thus have unrestricted access to their “property”
There are many other factors though, and many come down to “transpeople are icky” and hysterical male homophobia.
My take on the Facebook list is that it includes any number of terms that aren’t actually used very widely if at all, thus leading the less-than-knowledgeable to conclude that they’ll never understand any of this transgender stuff.
I’m currently trying to figure out why “gays and lesbians” sounds fine but “transgenders” does not. “The lesbian” works but “the gay” and “the transgender” do not.
Because it’s never used that way. It’s gauche to refer to me as a “transgender” - the proper form is “transgender person” or “transgender woman.” Or “hey, hot biker chick!,” which I was called last week…
Whoever wrote that bit about why “transgendered” is bad has failed grammar.
I mean, fine, if you find it objectionable, I won’t use it, but please just be upfront about the reason. It’s not the grammar. It’s the prior history of the word (I would assume).
It was coined on the analogy of “gendered,” as in “French is a language with gendered nouns.” No one says “…with gender nouns.” That’s because gender IS a noun, and funny ol’ English requires certain contortions in order to use it as an adjective: the participle means “having gender.” “Transgendered” would mean “being transgender,” which is exactly what you want.
But, again, it does no harm to use “transgender” as an adjective, and if that is what is preferred, fine. Language changes, and not always in ways that are consistent.
That the issue comes down to these specific fears seems likely to me. I think many of the fears actually translate more closely to “men are scary and devious”. In these cases, transpeople get dragged into something that was otherwise limited to straight cis men: the worry that men will claim to be trans in order to legitimize their access to a space that women might understandably wish was women-only. It’d be interesting to know how often typical men express fear of trans men invading mens’ rooms, because this would involve all the same issues except for the issue of aggressive straight cis men trying to gain extra access to women. Actually, this is especially interesting in the sense that the “scary and devious” fear is directed at the most privileged group.
There’s many things about the English language which are not necessarily consistent.
Yes. And the contortions of the LGBT community confuse me sometimes.
It’s sometimes quite irritating when cisgender people lecture us on what we are supposed to call ourselves. I’ve had people come up to my face at a GNO and lecture me about “transgender.” I normally nod my head and smile and shrug until they become insulting.
First I have to preface that it’s rare that transmen are outed in a bathroom anyhow. The number of transmen I’ve met who didn’t “pass” I can count on one hand; once that beard comes rushing in and the body hair and the voice drops, they look like shorter very masculine guys.
From my studies, I find it very uncommon that men are that bothered by transmen invading “their space,” but there appears (note, this is opinion and conjecture) to be a small subgroup of men who will react violently to transmen in their bathrooms. This comes to me from reading innumerable anecdotes and talking personally to many transmen. When this happens it’s a matter of survival - I have come across transmen who when they were outed in a bathroom were severely beaten and in some cases raped right there in the bathroom. Seems hard to believe, but I’ve also seen the police reports.
The reason behind why a small subgroup seems to have serious problems is not really known to me, nor do I have any good guesses which seem to hold water.
Since this thread is here, I would like to hijack it with a question.
Yesterday I was reading a Toronto weekly paper and saw reference to LBGTQ. I assume the Q is for queer but how does it fit in? I thought calling gay people queer was an insult.
“Q” sometimes means “questioning.” I’ve actually seen “LGBTQQ”. And recently I saw “LGBTQQIAP.” (queer, questioning, intersex, asexual, pansexual).
I fear sometimes that the profusion of acronyms will lead to my people being thought comedic. Others do too, which is another reason the divide between the “TI” and the rest of the letters seems to grow each month.
Actually, I think there are two groups of cis straight men reacting in different ways for different reasons, and I was only thinking of one of the two when I wrote that post. I remember a cartoon of a football team answering a poll about unisex locker rooms and the options were “I think they are a good idea because women should have access to all the same spaces”, “I don’t think it’s a good idea because we need separate spaces”, and “I think it’s a good idea but for all the wrong reasons.” They were all picking the last option. That’s the sort of thing I was thinking of when I wrote the post.
But the other group would be men who are reacting to a perceived threat of unwelcome sexual advances from other men, while simultaneously completely unaware of any distinction between orientation and gender identity. I didn’t think of that, but can imagine it.
Say, this is a slight hijack, but still a question about another aspect of “a trans man is…”. Do people who have completely transitioned to living as and expressing the gender of their identity sometimes say they consider both their birth assigned gender and their trans status to be in the past, and say they aren’t trans anymore, they’re just men or women? I have no direct experience but can imagine looking at the whole progression as entirely historic (whether it’s a tiny progression or a huge one).
Some non-trans gay men are hostile to trans men because they think it’s a way for the heterosexual society to invade gay men sexual spaces and communities, to try to “convert” them to the mighty vagina. They also tend to think no True Gay Man can love or have sex with a trans man.
Non-trans gay men are also not immune from verbally or physically/sexually assaulting trans men.
You’ll find all opinions, really.
I know plenty of people for whom their transition was a process and who, once they have reached their own level of completeness, they see themselves as just regular guys/gals and drop out of anything trans related.
For others being trans is an integral part of their history/life and they see themselves as trans men or women. Between those groups, you’ll find all possible graduations.
As the years pass, if you have transitioned to the stage you wanted/needed, and if being trans doesn’t cause you, say troubles in finding a job, or if you don’t have health issues trans-related, you tend to detach yourself from trans stuff, unless you do activism work.
Some people who are “regular joes”, come back to the community after some years, because sometimes it’s nice to be able to talk to other people who get it and they want input about advances in surgery or relationship advice. Some also show up to kinda say to pre-transition people: “look, it’s possible, I made it, and I’m happy.”
Often (though not always) someone putting a definite or indefinite article (i.e. ‘the’ or ‘a’) in front of something tends to emphasis that it’s a ‘thing’, something new and unusual and therefore confusing, scary and/or not normal to them. To use a humorous example David Letterman still likes to say, "she’s on ***the ***MTV’ to make himself sound old & cranky.Check out this old PSA warning about homosexuality and see how they always use ‘a’ and ‘the’. I find it so ridiculously outdated as to seem hilariously now!
As for why it’s still always- she’s ‘a’ lesbian and never- she’s lesbian, my best guess is that it’s still just more easily acceptable to treat women as objects in some form.
Yes, many of us. Or they may say they are something like “a woman with a transsexual history.” It’s almost never a plan to deceive, it’s just…if you live in the world as a female fully, at some point why does the past matter?
I mean look at me - every piece of ID I have, work, Federal, State, etc. says “F”. Every record has my new name. Physically I’m as female as I’m going to get. Most of my friends only knew me as Una. My work does its best to pretend like the boy me never existed, and I sprung fully-formed from the brow of the Coal Goddess. And I pass, I pass really, really well. I could not only go “deep stealth”, the option is highly tempting. After all, why do I need to tell anyone I was ever anything other than what I am now? In another 10 years at work half the people who ever knew “boy” me will be retired, moved on, or will have forgot about old me.
People who go deep stealth aren’t delusional. If confronted with someone official (doctor, police officer, etc.) they’ll admit they are trans. Or if they don’t, well, they probably are delusional.
So why don’t I try stealth? Because I’m a streetfighter. I enjoy advocacy. I enjoy fighting for a cause. I enjoy helping others. And I feel like I can really make a difference.
