Liberal, would you kindly give it a rest about Andrew Jackson? (mild)

The BBQ Pit
121

Got a cite that Jackson planned that the Trail would cause so many deaths? :dubious:

And, although Jackson certainly supported the “Indian Removal Act” note tht last word “Act”. The Act passed both houses of Congress.

Note that *Jackson’s *policy allowed Indians to remain, if they so chose. It was Van Buren and Scott who changed Jackson’s policy to force all the natives to leave their homes.“*The petition was ignored by President Martin Van Buren, who soon thereafter directed General Winfield Scott to forcibly move all those Cherokee who had not yet complied with the treaty and moved west, even though the treaty allowed those who wished to remain in the east to do so.”
*

And, while Jackson was at the helm, there were no horrors like the Trail of Tears, the removals were more or less peaceful (although certainly unfair):" In all, more than 45,000 American Indians were relocated to the West during Jackson’s administration. During this time, the administration purchased about 100 million acres (400,000 km²) of Indian land for about $68 million and 32 million acres (130,000 km²) of western land."

So, Jackson moved 45,000 Native American’s with no noted fatalities ( I am sure there were some, of course). Van Buren moved 17,000 Cherokee and caused **4000 **deaths. Mostly in the infamous Concentration camps "Nevertheless, the treaty was enforced by President Martin Van Buren, who sent federal troops to round up about 17,000 Cherokees in concentration camps before being sent to the West. Most of the deaths occurred from disease in these camps." which were not part of Jackson’s plan.

Jackson certainly wanted to move the Indians. But there is no evidence he wanted to do so, planned to do so, or did do so in any but a “humane” manner, without Concentration camps and the resultant thousands of deaths.

Blame Jackson for being a racist, fine. But he shares that blame with a majority of both Houses of Congress, and likely with a majority of Americans at that time. However, the direct blame for the deaths on the Trail of Tears lies upon Van Buren and Scott, not Jackson.

122

The Cherokee went to the Supreme Court again in 1831. This time they based their appeal on an 1830 Georgia law which prohibited whites from living on Indian territory after March 31, 1831, without a license from the state. The state legislature had written this law to justify removing white missionaries who were helping the Indians resist removal. The court this time decided in favor of the Cherokee. It stated that the Cherokee had the right to self-government, and declared Georgia’s extension of state law over them to be unconstitutional. The state of Georgia refused to abide by the Court decision, however, and President Jackson refused to enforce the law.

In 1830, just a year after taking office, Jackson pushed a new piece of legislation called the “Indian Removal Act” through both houses of Congress. It gave the president power to negotiate removal treaties with Indian tribes living east of the Mississippi. Under these treaties, the Indians were to give up their lands east of the Mississippi in exchange for lands to the west. Those wishing to remain in the east would become citizens of their home state. This act affected not only the southeastern nations, but many others further north. The removal was supposed to be voluntary and peaceful, and it was that way for the tribes that agreed to the conditions. But the southeastern nations resisted, and Jackson forced them to leave.

Jackson’s attitude toward Native Americans was paternalistic and patronizing – he described them as children in need of guidance. and believed the removal policy was beneficial to the Indians. Most white Americans thought that the United States would never extend beyond the Mississippi. Removal would save Indian people from the depredations of whites, and would resettle them in an area where they could govern themselves in peace. But some Americans saw this as an excuse for a brutal and inhumane course of action, and protested loudly against removal.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2959.html

I suppose a nice, peaceful removal of blacks to the Alaskan wilderness would be palatable to some people here. The Indian Hater, incidentally, hated blacks as well. When one of his slaves escaped, he ordered that when it was found, it was to be given 300 lashes.

123

Anyone who thinks that this was in any way just has never spent much time in Oklahoma.

124

Sadly, that makes him pretty much the same as many a slave owner of the time. I’m not defending the guy, I’m just pointing out-that was pretty much the norm at the time.

125

Cite?

126

Few people know that Andrew Jackson organized the Children’s Crusade, and also invented mustard gas.

127

He also came up with the Aflac duck.

128

I’m pretty pissed about Caesar’s invasion of Northern Gaul personally.

129

Yeah well, don’t get me started on that fucking Anglo-Saxon hater William the Conqueror.

130

What about the Celts? Came across in the 800s BC and grabbed pretty much the entire country for themselves.

131

Celt-Iberian Hater Africanus is basically indistinguishable from Hitler.

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Righ. The Court found for the Cherokee against another law…not the Removal Act. And, btw, PBS’s account is being a little misleading here. Jackson was never actually called on to enforce the court’s decision, and he probably didn’t have any authority to do so, The governor of Georgia did go on to pardon the two missionaries.

Are you talking about a peaceful removal of blacks to Alaska now or in the 1830s?

133

Coming late to this thread…

But–where else did Liberal offend your opinions of Jackson? The thread cited in the OP deals with a recent PBS documentary on Andrew Jackson. It seems like a pretty good place to express one’s opinions on the man.

It’s not as though Lib had thread shat all over a discussion of the Wit & Wisdom of Ollie Cromwell.

134

Hell, Scotland was practically a Pict reservation. And those poor bastards didn’t even get casinos.

135

Anyone who bashes Bush but not Jackson or excuses Jackson but not Bush has got some splainin to do.

136

That Tito really pisses me off.

137

Why not? What’s the big deal about Drogheda? :confused:

138

Hey, I’m glad to bash both of them!

139

Cromwell told a Royalist army “Surrender or we’ll kill you all.” They didn’t and he did. For some reason, there are modern Irish who are upset about the whole thing.

140

Didn’t they have that hit “I’ll Stop the World and Drink With you?”