Libertarians to infiltrate Idaho. Discuss.

[Riboflavin]

*Originally posted by Tsiyeria *
**I apologize if I have offended, Riboflavin. However, I don’t see that anger is necessary. At the moment, I’m just learning what responses draw what reactions.

I note that you still haven’t answered my original question, haven’t provided any argument for a position (you’ve asked a lot of questions and then ditched them), and are now complaining that I’m not being polite enough in responding to your non-argument. There isn’t really any point in continuing this in GD; you’re not making one side of a debate, you’re just rambling and doing that ‘I’m so offended’ bit that a certain other poster who often inhabits threads like this always does. Take a position, explain how your questions and the answers to them are related to other things in the discussion, and point out specific flaws in what other people say, othewise there’s simply no point in anything but a pit thread on this topic. Asking ‘how would a 12 year old get $150?’ and then whining that I have a negative opinion of kids when I point out that there 12-YOs who steal that kind of money is simply not engaging in debate.

For the record, I note that you haven’t detailed any of the errors in my assumptions that you alleged existed earlier. Are you conceeding that my assumptions were all perfectly correct, or are you ever going to state what you think I’m in error about?

I’ll also note that you still haven’t related your questions back to my original one about what the Porcupines ought to do about Idaho’s gun laws should they get there - even if I were to conceede that there’s absolutely no need for any laws restricting the sale/carry of firearms to/by minors, as your questions seem to be aiming at, that still doesn’t provide a clear answer to the original question. Should the porcupines leave those laws on the books since they would be irrelevant and not worth spending political capital to remove, or should they remove them since there would be no bad effects from doing so and it’s their goal to remove bad laws?

Why, Tinkertoy? Since I’m being grilled here, I assume I have the right to call for reasons behind statements as well. Why is that comment asinine?

Just for reference, the statement being referred to was “Okay, first off, why would a 12-year-old want to buy a gun? I can think of no reason, off the top of my head.” The question shows such a disconnect from reality that it stretches the imagination to believe that it was being asked seriously.

I thought it was relevant.

That about sums it up. You just state that you thought what you said was relevant, you don’t offer up anything at all showing how it might be relevant to this thread. Your anecdotal experience would be relevant if I was making the claim that all 12-year-olds had access to $150, since it would refute that claim. But since my only claim is that some 12-YOs get their hands on that kind of money, showing a single counterexample is irrelevant - there’s a big difference between making claims about ‘some X’ and ‘all X’. Assuming (which I have to do because you’re keeping your argument secret) that your question was intended to show that there is no way

Then again, I don’t share your worldly experiences, Riboflavin. Perhaps you can educate me in the ways of the world, since you know so much. **

Again, let’s note that for all of the whining and sarcastic pleas for education, Tsiyeria has spent this entire post not making an argument, not supporting assertions with anything more than ‘I feel’, not refuting an argument that someone else made especialyl asking for cites on specific facts, and not showing how his/her mess of questions relate to the rest of the thread. One of the ways of this board (I’m not going to try to teach about the world to someone who believes that no 12-year-olds want guns) is that in Great Debates you’re supposed to debate, not just insist that your opponent is wrong and you’re right without stating why. You think your statement was relevant? Fine, tell us what it relates to. You think I’ve got errors in my assumptions? Fine, tell us what they are and make an actual argument so I don’t have to guess what your questions are supposed to mean.

[Tsiyeria]

Riboflavin, I concede the point that what I’m doing is not entirely straightforward. You want supporting facts?

Back to my original question.
Why would a twelve-year-old want to buy a gun? Note the difference between this question and what you sai I said, which was “No 12-year-old would want to buy a gun.”

I have asked many people this question. Answer: I don’t know.

Think about it, Riboflavin, and give me the answer you want to hear. Why would a 12-year-old want to buy a gun?

2. Riboflavin, in this hypothetical world where children steal over $100, why would a child steal the money, when they can steal the gun itself?

I’m not giving any generalizations, such as “No child steals,” I’m merely saying that the percentage of children who would steal $150 and then buy a gun is, at best, marginal.

And as long as we’re talking about what doesn’t go where, your comments about my whining should go in the BBQ Pit. Go flame there.

[Stonebow]

*Originally posted by Tsiyeria *
**
Think about it, Riboflavin, and give me the answer you want to hear. Why would a 12-year-old want to buy a gun?

2. Riboflavin, in this hypothetical world where children steal over $100, why would a child steal the money, when they can steal the gun itself?

**

I am not Riboflavin, but i will take a crack at these if i can.

1a) guns are cool
1b) guns make you feel powerful
1c) the guys in the matrix/gi joe/ etc. all have guns because they are badasses
1d) at 12 yrs old, especially if i am antisocial, nerdy, picked on, etc. a gun can help my self-respect, as well as making it clear to the other guys that i too, am a badass.
1e) chicks dig them
1f) i already have toy guns…what’s the difference?

2a) money is easier to steal
2b) i can get money legitamately without question (birthday, borrowing, earning, etc.)
2c) stealing guns will get me into a lot more trouble than stealing small amounts of money at a time.

[gex_gex]

Tsiyeria: according to this article from The Australian (a respected, somewhat right wing national broadsheet) the average Australian child aged 7-14 recieves A$160 every year in Christmas and Birthday money and the average Australian only child recieves A$182. Even given your assertion that kids are unable to save, a child with a Birthday close to Christmas could forseeably recieve an amount that could purchase one of the cheaper guns Riboflavin discusses.

Considering the relative size of the two nations respective economies, I would imagine an American child would recieve more money than an Australian child, hence making the purchase of a gun even easier.

With the school shootings in your country in recent years, I do not see how you can argue that no child would not want a gun.

Given this, would you allow a child of any age to purchase a gun?

[Riboflavin]

*Originally posted by Tsiyeria *
Riboflavin, I concede the point that what I’m doing is not entirely straightforward. You want supporting facts?

I’d like you to actually make an argument rather than ask questions I already answered at length, if it’s not terribly too much trouble. Supporting facts would be an interesting change, but what I’d really like to see is some way in which your questions and the answers to the relate to the topic at hand.

Back to my original question.
Why would a twelve-year-old want to buy a gun? Note the difference between this question and what you sai I said, which was “No 12-year-old would want to buy a gun.”

That is an outright lie; anyone who thinks that your statement above is not a lie can simply look back up this thread to your earlier post, where your exact words were (bolding mine): “Okay, first off, why would a 12-year-old want to buy a gun? I can think of no reason, off the top of my head.”. That second sentance is rather significant, dontcha think? It would, in fact, make what you claim I said a pretty accurate paraphrase of your position - but I didn’t even say what you said I said. What I actually sait was (bolding added now) “I’m not going to try to teach about the world to someone who believes that no 12-year-olds want guns.”

I have asked many people this question. Answer: I don’t know.
Think about it, Riboflavin, and give me the answer you want to hear. Why would a 12-year-old want to buy a gun?

I have already answered that specific question earlier in this thread. I have no idea what game you’re trying to play, but it’s not a very clever game because other people can simply scroll up (or go back to page 2 if this makes page 3) and see that I have already answered that question.

I’m not going to bother quoting my old answer, since it’s pretty obvious that you either read it earlier or deliberately skipped it - you quoted material from that same post.

And as long as we’re talking about what doesn’t go where, your comments about my whining should go in the BBQ Pit. Go flame there. **

Nope, you’re new to this board so you’re apparently unaware of GD policies. I can talk in derogatory terms about your argument all I want; as long as I’m referring only to what you’ve put forward as an argument, that sort of thing is fine in moderation. In GD it’s also perfectly fine to point out that a statement that someone like you has posted is a lie, especially when the proof that it’s a lie is in your own words in this very thread. What I can’t do is call you a liar or make other comments about you personally, that would require a pit thread. I was kind of tempted to make one, but just pointing out the GD-appropriate stuff is really enough here, and I try not to be too harsh on high-schoolers.