Libs won't criticize Obama? See Tom Toles 11/26/08

Great Debates
1

Well that just took three weeks and one day - Tom Toles’ editorial cartoon in the Washington Post for 11/26/08 gives Obama a small amount of grief for his Wall Street based economic team.

As an Obama voter and campaign contributor, I say Bravo!! About time! Not that I have a huge problem with Obama’s economic team (yet), but the guy is President-elect. It’s our right as Americans to criticize him, his administration, and the color of his ties if we feel like it. Nay, it’s our sacred duty! Also fun! And have you seen the ears on that guy?

I love this country! Even if the President is an idiot about at least one thing - for all values of $president.

My point - and I sorta kinda have one - is that to those who complained that the Librul Media, the MSM, the Obmapod People, would not criticize their Saint Barry - lookee here! The man hasn’t taken the oath of office yet, and the WaPo is talking smack! :cool: Stewart, Colbert, Leno, Letterman, Ferguson - you’re coming up to bat.

(Mods - I put this in GD because it’s political, and about criticizing Obama. If you have a General Question In YOur Humble Opinion about this Mundane and Pointless Stuff I Must Share, please move this as you wish. KThxBye.)

2

What you have to realize about the Rabid Right is:

Criticism of Republicans = liberal media bias
Criticism of Democrats = fair and balanced reporting

3

First: I don’t buy the implicit assertion that Tom Toles is a touchstone for liberals in general. (If you wish to assign him as such, feel free; I think you’re giving up a lot of ground in temrs of defending “liberals” against lots of claims if you do).

Second: I don’t disagree with your general premise – that is, we’ll certainly see Obama criticized by the left, by liberals, nad by many others before too much of a honeymoon period has passed.

Third: in an odd way, it’s bittersweet. You’re right that it’s a strength of this country… but it’s also irritating. I’m reminded of Robin Williams’ character in Man of the Year, a political commentator in the mold of Bill Mahr or Jon Stewart who, almost as a stunt, decides to run for president and ends up seemingly winning. Discovering he didn’t really win – it was a honest-to-goodness computer error in new ballot counting systems, he steps down. But he says something like: "Today I was in the oval office for a preparatory meeting and I sat behind the President’s desk and I had a reality check. I sat there and I went ‘Wait a minute, I’m a Jester. A Jester doesn’t rule the kingdom; He makes fun of the king.’ "

And I’m torn about that concept. In a healthy society, perhaps we always need someone who is willing and able to snark about the President. But it would be nice, too, to imagine a society in which we could simply get behind the President, recognize that for the next four years he’s OUR President, and do our level and collective best to help make his administration a success.

I thought the way that some liberals openly hoped for disaster in Iraq was contemptible. And I think anyone who hopes Obama will fail now as he tackles a truly challenging economic mess to be equally contemptible. Obama wasn’t my idea of an ideal candidate, but as of 1/20/09, he’s my President. I want him to succeed. (And unfortunately, Obama’s competition was even LESS my idea of an ideal candidate, so…)

4

For this alone you should be Pitted.
:wink:

5

Who hoped for failure in Iraq? Many people expected it, quite rightly, since Rumsfeld was completely incompetent, but I haven’t seen a single person who actually hoped for it.

6

boggle! You don’t read any of the liberal web sites, do you? You definitely don’t read Democratic Underground, The Huffington Post comments section or Daily Kos. Do you read The Straight Dope message board? Do you read anywhere where there are at least 3 other liberals in the past week??

Many Liberals are howling in anger at Obama’s cabinet choices. The hard part is knowing which ones are true liberals and which ones are right wingers posing as liberals to rabble-rouse. But even if none of them were around, there’d be plenty of criticism to see.

Even though I’ve done it myself, despising the thought of Eric Holder as Attorney General, I have to admit that it is, as Bricker says, irritating. I’ve tended to shut up (try anyway) about Holder just because I do trust Obama. He’s a smart man, much smarter than I am, and even if I don’t agree with some or even most cabinet picks, I realize that they have to do his bidding, and I think they will.

The really good stuff is going on behind the scenes and deeper into each department, with transition teams doing an in-depth analysis of each corner of our government department-by-department. He really is going to change our government from from bottom up, not just the top down, and that’s where his true value is.

7

Define “success” for all values of “we.”

I understand the sentiment, and (speaking of Man of the Year), Lewis Black has a bit about getting behind the president in late 2001 ("…not like I got a choice between him and Yosemite Sam") that I generally agree with. But once we invaded Iraq for reasons that were dubious even then, many of us didn’t believe that Bush’s presidency had “success” anywhere in sight. Plus if we just roll over and support the president (whoever it is), his administration will get even bigger balls and god knows what else they’d come up with. It’s an essential part of checks and balances that we call out our president when he’s being an ass. This can certainly be taken too far, but the concept remains not only sound, but necessary.

8

Ruben Navarrette Jr has put out a harsh criticism, saying that “Obama insults Hispanics”

"…Obama seems to have filled his top four Cabinet posts - justice, treasury, defense and state - and couldn’t find a single Hispanic to put in any of them.

America’s largest minority took a chance on Obama despite the fact that the president-elect had no track record in reaching out to them and didn’t break a sweat trying to win their votes. They deserve better."

9

He is not president yet. Once he gets in he will be creamed when he makes mistakes. The repubs have not died. They are just sharpening their knives.
Fox may be critical. Many internet sites are. Yet he still is not in office.

10

Your whole post was pretty good, actually, but I wanted to chime in on this particular opinion you expressed because I share it. I especially think “contemptible” is the precise word.

Rush Limbaugh, I think, qualifies. I heard him today on my way into town. He was parsing Obama’s recent news conferences. At one point, he covered Obama talking about the frankly idiotic premise of the OP’s cartoon. Obama explained that it is his vision that is The Change®. He said that he’s putting into place people who can and will execute his vision. That’s exactly what I’ve understood him to mean all along.

But here’s how Rush translated it for his frothing fanbase. Rush said that Obama has broken his campaign promise. He has hired retreads and cronies to further his political goal of amassing power. (Honest, I’m not kidding or even substantially paraphrasing at this point.) He is relying on them to tell him what to do. They will tell him what to say, and he will carry out their plans.

It’s like calling Reagan’s “Tear down this wall!” a capitulation to the Soviet Union.

I do find the OP’s cartoon to be funny, but probably not in a way the artist intended. It’s funny because it’s so asinine. It’s funny like Sarah Palin is funny. There are thousands of people who share substantial blame for the economic crash. And some of those are or have been in government. And one or two of those (three, maybe) have been put into place by Obama. But neither Christina Romer, nor Melody Barnes, nor Peter Orszag, nor Austan Goolsbee can even remotely be said to be among those thousands.

But that’s not even the point. The point is that you can’t make changes without putting into place the people who know what levers to pull. Otherwise, things won’t change. Or as Obama put it:

“What we are going to do is combine experience with fresh thinking. But understand where the vision for change comes from first and foremost. It comes from me. That’s my job. It’s to provide a vision in terms of where we are going, and then to make sure my team is implementing it.”

Rush understands what Obama said perfectly well, and that’s what makes him contemptible.

And I gotta congratulate the Democrats once more. You have yourselves a real leader in this man. He’s far and away the best leader you’ve had in my lifetime, and I’m old. Cherish this because it won’t likely come around again for another generation or two. It is exeedingly rare. Trust him. Support him.

11

I just want to put a little more emphasis on the last 7 sentences the last poster wrote.
Take that to heart.

12

I had to laugh because that whole answer was telling people to STFU, I got this, in the most polite way possible.

Thank you for saying this. I was a latecomer to the Obama train. Thank goodness people like you and Shayna and so many others saw what I didn’t long long before.
ETA, it amazes me that people, like Rush, can see an Obama press conference and not at the very least see what an intelligent, thoughtful man he is. He speaks in full sentences and is articulate. That’s change right there!

13

You can’t really criticize Obama before he takes office. No President is going to get substantial criticism before we can see some policies in action.

All Obama has done was make appointments. There are no solid conclusions to draw from any of this. It’s not fair to say that the left should criticize him right now because all anyone can do is speculate. Why would someone vote for Obama and then be pessimistic about his appointments?

14

I strongly disagree. Maybe the most important conclusion one can draw — and there are many important ones — is that one of his guiding principles is the pursuit of excellence.

15

Actually, there are a few conclusions that may be drawn. Contrast Clinton’s first term transition – he made nowhere near this level of progress, and at least two of his early nominees had to be withdrawn after embarrassing revelations came to light.

Conclusion: Obama is far more organized and executing a far more clear, mapped-out plan than Clinton was at a similar point in the process.

16

That also has a bit to do with Obama’s approach, which has been very different from most of his recent predecessors. They were wont to set back and wait, wait for people to come grovelling and beg them for jobs. It was a process along the lines of, “I gave you more alms than the other guy, and so I should get the job.”

But with Obama, it has been a very proactive process. MSNBC sources say that in the case of Gates, for example, Obama made him aware early on that he was his first choice. Then, he went beyond that, and appointed James Jones to NSA (as well as a couple of other lesser but still key appointments). It was at that point, by that signal, that Gates agreed to continue serving. He knew that Obama’s overture had been sincere, and that he could work well with the man.

17

I think it’s still too early to tell. I’ll know if he made good appointments when problems get solved.

His transition is moving more efficiently than Clinton’s, but that still doesn’t mean Obama will accomplish anything. It’s a good sign, but I can’t conclude how he will govern because of it.

ETA:

Ok, you can criticize the transition itself, but I was talking more about how Obama will govern.

18

The linked cartoon in the OP is not really critical of Obama. It is criticizing the Bush Admin for creating the impossible situation Obama now has to deal with.

19

How do you figure? The guy with the ears is clearly Obama, and he’s saying “We’re putting the Wall Street guys who did this to you (“beat up” the economy) in charge of your recovery.”

Rightly or wrongly, that’s a criticism of Obama (for picking the guys who ruined the economy to fix the economy), and not of Bush.

20

:confused: The toon that appeared when I clicked shows Obama in runner’s gear doing stretching exercises before preparing to leap off a cliff into an abyss labeled “ECONOMY.”

Maybe the link just shows whatever Toles toon went up most recently.