GREAT !!!
I’ve been waiting for the result of the vote since yesterday at noon (French time, early morning in the USA), went up to bed too early to know, and the morning news on my radio didn’t even thought it was worth mentionning :rolleyes:
I had been convinced nothing would be done for some time and I’m overjoyed. :):):)
Monty, you’re arguing with someone who’s just tried to claim that not being butchered by a power-mad autocrat in house-to-house fighting because they wanted freedom, is the worst possible outcome for the people who would otherwise be murdered.
This is the same person who has supported totalitarian regimes invading and occupying their neighbors, but when it comes to cheering on the death of American servicemen who might help to protect innocent civilians, he’s strongly in support of “sovereignty”.
This is the same person who claimed that North Korea could wage war against another nation without having to show a valid casus belli, before claiming that we could not wage war against Libya without having a valid casus belli.
This is the same poster who claimed that the allowance for self defense under the UN Charter had nothing to do with self defense and it was, in fact, properly applied when a nation wasn’t threatened and didn’t even think it was threatened. And then later claimed that we couldn’t attack Libya because we weren’t acting in self defense.
This is the same poster who claims that people can not be trusted to live their own lives because people make bad choices, so if someone seizes power and rules as a tyrant they should be trusted with ruling everybody’s lives… despite being a person, too.
This is the same poster who’s claimed that fighting in the streets invariably demonstrates the true will of the people. Except when it’s a totalitarian thug who’s being threatened, and then the people who want freedom should be slaughtered.
This is the same poster who’s claimed that the will of the people/the people’s best interests are what he really cares about, but then he seeks to outlaw and criminalize every single means by which the people might make their will known, from criticizing the government’s choices to the simple act of voting.
This is the same poster who’s claimed that he opposes imperialism, when during its height the Soviet Union held an empire that stretched 13 time zones.
This is the same poster who claims that he will only support a tyrannical regime if it provides for the needs of the people and maintains ‘socialism’, and then ignores cites that shows that the Libyan people get such awful health care that they have to leave the country and go to other nations to get health care, that roughly 1/4 young people are unemployed, and that Quadaffi’s inner circle are so rich that they’re well known on the European jet-set as partyers and playboys.
This is the same poster who claims that a “socialist” economy is important to him, and yet China has an economy that’s becoming increasingly capitalist (and has massive wealth and standard-of-living disparities between the cities and the rural areas) while Saudi Arabia has an economy that’s centrally planned with the few private enterprises that are allowed being strictly controlled and regulated by the central authority.
This is a poster who started a thread on the Straight Dope, claiming that he expected Dopers to rally to his side and champion Quadaffi’s regime and voice anger at the protesters wanting freedom.
This is a poster who actually decided to throw in the phrase “I hope to Lenin” in the context of wishing death on American aviators, on an American message board, where people overwhelmingly oppose Quadaffi’s actions.
Give it up, Jake.
This post is far too over-the-top for anyone to think it represents your genuine beliefs.
If you’ve taken any acting classes, you ought to demand your money back.
Beyond that, if you want some tips on how to actually make post that will convince people that you’re a communist I’m sure there are people who would be willing to help.
One last thing. It’s obviously against the rules for me to suggest you’re lying and even if it weren’t the rules I wouldn’t do anything so gauche.
I’ll take your word for it that you genuinely are a communist who is so wildly ignorant of dialectal materialism that you think that modern China is a communist country committed to being a worker’s paradise and that rampant discrimination against those who are perceived racial inferiors is perfectly in keeping with the Ulyanov’s views.
I’m merely suggesting you take some tips from people who better understand the doctrines that you have chosen to adopt and in doing so you’ll be able to make posts that actually will get people to respect you as opposed to laughing themselves sick.
Dude
The libyans had modern russian anti-aircraft weaponry back in the days of operation el dorado canyon. Twice modern airforces have gone downtown in Bagdad and mostly returned.
When the dogs of war get unleashed, no russian made bottle rocket is going to stop a modern airforce in its tracks.
Declan
ABOUT FRAKKIN’ TIME!!!
I had turned off the news yesterday to avoid the fallout from Japan. (Bad taste, I know.) The tragedy in Japan is horrible, but so is the one in Libya, and I worried that the public’s attention had shifted too much.
My hope now is that Arab League forces will be part of the operational group. I cannot of think of anything that would make the Egyptian people prouder right now than seeing their air force help liberate their neighbors. I know their military/government has been very helpful in keeping their border open to allow assistance to come in.
I certainly hope this sends the right message to Bahrain and other governments who are cracking down on protesters. Let them sit in the squares and march and carry banners and engage in peaceful protests. I have not heard of Bahrainis trying to storm the palace, but the king is starting to give them reason to. I can only imagine the unrest if the US called in NATO troops to break up demonstrations.
Obama should make clear in uncertain terms just what the 5th Fleet is capable of accomplishing. If they want foreign intervention, we could certainly oblige.
[QUOTE=Ibn Warraq]
One last thing. It’s obviously against the rules for me to suggest you’re lying and even if it weren’t the rules I wouldn’t do anything so gauche.
[/QUOTE]
Lying isn’t gauche. It is very droite. Wishing for utopian ideals is very gauche. Wishing for the return of mass-murdering failed regimes or the success of failing ones is very sinister though. 
I’m still trying wrap my mind around “modern Russian weapons” compared to “modern western weapons.” That’s gold, there, gold!
If someone was in the fertilizer business. 
:smack:Must’ve been the fertilizer that ate the e I dropped from one word upthread. Drat.
You’ve just established your position is morally bankrupt. When you say you do not want a democratic North Africa, you are implying you want innocent people to be tortured, jailed and killed. Do you really want this or are you just playing devil’s advocate?
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/17/inside_classified_hill_briefing_administration_spells_out_war_plan_for_libya?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d82de1b1d470f0f,0
Got to dash, got to also quote this.
Operating out of Sicily.
Just out of curiosity, do you also oppose open-borders policies for the circulation of people ?
Goddamned Gaddafi! The guy is a mad genius. He’ll just say anything!
Reports are that Kadaffy’s troops are shelling and attacking Misrata while declaring a cease fire.
“What? I meant a cease-fire for them! Who didn’t get that?!”
I’m not wondering what they threatened China with, but rather what they promised them. I feel a big carrot must have been used here, not a big stick.
It takes two to declare a ceasefire even if Gadaffi does mean it as a tactical measure until the heat is off.
The Rebel Alliance would be silly to observe one. Counter-attack so we can put the mad dog down. Don’t let him play for time.
I guess that his military don’t want their toys all broken up and he’ll end up dead PDQ once the bombs and missiles start falling.
If I were the British and French I’d sink a few ships and bomb his tanks and artillery: ‘ceasefire’ or not.
A ceasefire does not mean civilians are not being brutalised in Tripoli and in his dungeons in the recently recaptured towns. One civilian shot by one mercenary is enough.
Time for some short sharp shocks.
Interesting that the USS Enterprise is hightailing it back to the Red Sea.
Maybe the Chinese didn’t want to be seen actively protecting him and finding themselves on the wrong side if the rebels win? Or maybe they don’t mind the West getting embroiled in this.
No cite, cause I don’t remember where I read this, but I read last night that Gaddafi has attempted to block some of China’s project/influence-building in Africa. Oops.
ETA cite - generally lefty blog; one I’ve found interesting & insightful on China.
As far as China, I agree some big carrots were offered more than big sticks. Though even they would rather see the oil markets stabilize sooner than later, and Libya is still a major producer.
And they have become one of the largest investors in Africa, with far less strings attached, and would want to see any palace fires to end quickly rather than start to flare up across the whole continent. (Though West Africa stills needs several regime changes. And I keep hoping Mugabe has a coronary soon.)