In virtually every thread on gas prices, automobile dependency, oil addiction, and so on, someone usually says that they would be happy take a bike to work, or ride the train or bus. But they can’t, either because they usually need to run errands on the way home, or pick up their child from whatever after-school activity they do, and so on.
But in places like London, Manhattan, or Paris, where driving one’s own car must be nothing but aggravation, what is the answer to the need to run errands or pick up one’s kids? Do more Manhattanites own cars and drive them every day than one would imagine?
In a related vein, at what age do parents in these cities feel comfortable letting their kids go out on their own via public transit? When one hears the reminiscences of famous old New Yorkers, like Woody Allen, they often say they started taking the subway into Manhattan and amusing themselves when they were still quite young. But recently, NYC mom Lenore Skenazy was roundly castigated for letting her nine-year-old son ride the subway alone, regardless of the fact that he had returned flushed with the joy of independence.
So how do people in cities like New York deal with these questions?
I can only answer for myself. I was regularly riding the public bus by myself in Montreal for a few blocks to go to school when I was ten years old. By the time I was thirteen I was taking the bus and subway (Metro) all over the city by myself.
I was not considered particularly independent.
I don’t have kids, but in my experience living in Manhattan is so awesome. The grocery store is right down the street so I just walk there and back. I have this bag that folds out into a cart to carry home my groceries. There is a drugstore down the block the other way and various diners and such all over. Everything here can be delivered to your home, some things 24 hours a day. There isn’t any place on the island I can’t get to on the train.
Everyone I know that has a car here has an old beater full of dents and scratches, though I know there are people here who have very nice vehicles. Most everyone on my block and the people I know who own cars get in accidents regularly and have people clip their cars just trying to park. I don’t know why anyone here bothers to own a car but I’m sure some people need them for work and such.
At about eleven or twelve, I used to do the following trip from a town about sixty miles from Sydney, from my mum’s house to my dad’s - alone:
Walk to the bus stop
Half hour bus ride to the station
Hour and twenty on the train to Sydney’s Central Station
Walk down through a maze of pedestrian tunnels to Platform 24 (it’s a big station)
Suburban train ride
Bus from the station for twenty minutes.
Five minute walk.
There were no raised eyebrows at this. Today, maybe (actually, I think it would be illegal).
To answer the OP, I’ve noticed that in Hong Kong, the public transport is absolutely brilliant, but it’s reserved for commuting and day trips. There seems to be a - what we would call - old-fashioned system of local shops and restaurants in every neighbourhood. Many of the high rise estates have a little shopping area on the ground floor. So it’s often just a matter of getting in the elevator to pick up a few odds and ends of groceries, etc. The price is probably higher than it would be in a supermarket, but then, you don’t have travelling costs.
If they haven’t done so already, kids are definitely using the subway/buses independently by high school – since there is school choice in NYC, as well as several competitive specialized public high schools you can only enter by examination/audition – many if not most ride the subway to high school.
You get a train/bus pass so transit to/from school is free.
I started younger than that – I used to take the bus to my orthodontist appointments in middle school (late 80s).
My oldest son, who will be 44 this year, has never learned to drive. When he was 14 (in Seattle), he bused everywhere, including downtown at night for a Dire Straits concert. He was mugged once, when he was much older.
OTOH, my youngest was robbed at knifepoint walking home from work – a distance of about 5 blocks. Four older kids took his shoes.
I hardly ever drove when we lived in Seattle. Once a week to the grocery store, or to mom’s – that was it. The bus stop was a half-block from my house.
TheLoadedDog My kid’s 12 and he doesn’t quite do that, but he does go Newtown-Burwood for his Yu Gi Oh tournament and back. Plus takes the bus to and from school.
My husband and I take the train or walk everywhere, I only really use the car on weekends to go grocery shopping, and when my son is out of the country visiting his dad, not even then. We have an appt where there’s no good transport once a week.
Chicago suburbs resident here; I work downtown and haven’t driven to work for over a decade. My husband and I own one car and he drives to work (~5 mile drive), but after his bicycle’s tune up is done, he plans on bicycling some days. There is a drugstore and a small but good supermarket on my ~5 block walk to the train station to downtown, as well as a dry cleaners, a hardware store about a block walk out of my way, etc. Oh yes, a bookstore too, and a seafood seller. My hair salon is about 6 blocks from our place as well. My doctors work at the same hospital that I do.
I use the car on weekends to go to further-away stores (Costco, Trader Joe’s, clothing stores, electronics stores) or the vet. I try to plan so that certain foods/items that can’t be bought for reasonable costs at stores near us are bought at these further-away stores, and the items I pick up at the supermarket on the way home are not too expensive.
My mom is a doctor, and rides the metro to work. Actually, she walks about a mile to a somewhat further-away metro stop which allows her to save a transfer and get her exercise in.
I was allowed to go by myself on public transit at a fairly young age – some time before we moved to Montreal. I know my mom intentionally had me take the bus to a theatre workshop I attended for several months when I was 12 or so, and when I moved to Montreal I started taking long solo metro expeditions as soon as I got there.
The problem I had when I was growing up in Christchurch is that the last buses out of the city were at 10:15pm or something impractically early for going to concerts or late movie sessions; I pretty much HAD to get a car as soon as I turned 16 just to get around and not have to walk 1.5km to the bus stop every time I had to go to school or, indeed, anywhere of interest at all.
Perhaps not quite what was asked; when I lived in San Francisco, every now and then a train car would be taken over by a ravenous horde nice classroom’s worth of grade schoolers on a field trip, with a teacher’s aide somewhere in the vicinity. Enlivened morning commutes.
We use public transport everywhere in Prague… and taxis in Dubai. In Prague there is a small shop (think 1/4 of a 7-11) across the street and a normal grocery store about 5 minutes away. A large vegetable market is 5 minutes the other direction. An good computer store is 2 blocks away… we rarely need to take public transport to get things except for major shopping trips to the hypermarket which is about 10 minutes by tram… we normally walk there and take the tram back.
Manhattanite here. The answer is, we schlep things from the store.
I have four grocery stores within five blocks, along with just about all of the other local shopping I need. When I go shopping, I’ll pick up only what I can carry. Usually I’ll carry a hand basket around the store and fill it up with what I need.
Also, virtually all grocery stores deliver, and you can shop on the internet with Fresh Direct or other services. We’ll sometimes to that when we’re having a party or want bulky items.
For shopping for bigger items, you can take them home in a cab, or most household goods stores and places like Home Depot will deliver for $15 or $20.
In the morning, you’ll see battalions of parents (or nannies) with kids in strollers or holding their hand bringing them to school. At appropriate times, the buses are filled with kids and parents, who exit in a mass in front of schools. For older kids, by the time of middle school or so, they are likely getting around by themselves on public transit.
Within three blocks, there are two grocery stores, a greengrocer’s, several restaurants, a library, and a hardware store. We’re on a streetcar line and there’s a bus stop one block away. Mr. Lissar takes the transit to work, and when I’m working I walk. My work is 6 blocks away. A couple more blocks for a bakery, cheese shop, four different churches and a synagogue. Clothing stores. Pet supplies. We can get a lot of what we need within a ten-block radius.
I took transit home from school (I think I was usually dropped off in the morning because it was on the way to work for my Mom) from grade 7 onward. From the crowds of kids on the buses, I’d say it’s still normal here from 10 or 11 up.
I live in a suburb of Dublin, a city with decent enough bus service but a not so great train service. The luas tram system was launched in recent years and is considered a success.
When I want to go for an errand I walk to the shopping centre or to the main street. The shopping centre is about 5 minutes walk, the main street about 7 minutes walk from my door. I work near the main street and in a university about 20 minutes away on bus and another 10 minute walk. I bought a bike with a view to cycling but I found I was too chicken to chance cycling where cars are driving. There are cycle lanes but they’re incomplete and shared with buses. As far as I can see many children are picked up from school by their parents although many walk and there are school buses too. My street has a junior school at the end of it and is jammed with traffic around the time the schools close.
I grew up in Toronto, and as Lissla says, using transit was common starting from about ages 10 to 12. We lived near downtown, close by a subway station actually; and in our neighbourhood, there was a supermarket, a public library, butcher shops, greengrocers, variety stores, and other similar places that fulfilled everyday needs. We generally walked to church too, since it was only a few blocks away. Mothers might use the family car (most families only had one car, since parking was at a premium in our neighbourhood) to go to the supermarket, but that was generally only for the once-a-week shopping; anything needed at other times was just a walk away. Sending kids on errands–such as for a loaf of bread or a quart of milk–was not unusual, and because everything you needed was handy, such errands took only a few minutes.
School was within walking distance–in those days, there were no yellow school buses making the rounds in our part of town, so if your parents didn’t drive you (and most parents didn’t), you either walked or rode your bike. Since my high school had a larger catchment area than the elementary schools I attended, some students took transit to that, but I didn’t need to. At any rate, by age 14, we were all seasoned veterans of the transit system, having used it many times to get to the movies, to sporting events, to our other activities, and so on.
Matt, can I ask how old you were when you moved to Montreal? Were you a metro enthusiast from a young age?
I ask because I’ve been a rail enthusiast since about the time I could walk, and much of my early travelling alone on Sydney’s trains was of my own volition and just for the sake of riding the trains. Was there a young matt out there on the metro for the joy of it?
I was about 8 when I started using the bus system by myself or with my buddies to get around, especially when traveling across the bay to San Francisco (this was before the rapid transit trains were built).
My mom once got stood up by a babysitter and was desperate to get to whatever it was she was going to, so she took all four of us (my youngest brother was 2, my sister 4, I was 5 and my big brother was 7) down to the corner and loaded us on a bus, telling the bus driver to take us on “two round trips.”
I keep looking at the thread title and it suddenly occurred to me - thats what we really need - to refer to cities as “public-transit rich” instead of saying those cities merely have "good public transportation. All in the presentation.
