I agree 100%. It is a severe punishment knowing that you killed your own children and that your suicide attempt will result in your spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair ought to be punishment galore. Something failed her–her husband, the medical system, whatever. Clearly 11 of 12 jurors agree. It would be insane to try her again. The idea that a new trial could result in 12 of 12 jurors going the other way is a form of insanity.
How common is postpartum psychosis? What percentage of cases end in a death?
Me too. This is a difficult case.
At the end three little kids were strangled. By their mother.
I just cannot get past that. I get she was not in her right mind but still…I just can’t give a pass on this.
I’ve been a bit out of my mind on a few occasions but never like that. Never violent even a little bit. At the end of the day we are responsible for our actions.
Just me and IMO.
Well, yeah, unless we’re not. But I get your reaction.
Postpartum psychosis is a very real thing, and a psychotic break can very well be a legitimate cause for acquittal. Was it in this case? I don’t know, but I allow for the possibility.
Then as a juror you would have felt compelled to return a verdict of not guilty by reason of lack of criminal responsibility. Just like this jury almost did.
That verdict is in agreement with both halves of the above sentence.
Like so many things, the Clancy trial is a real Rorschach Test and goes to show how much of our personal experience shapes our views. I’ve heard from men who are upset Clancy got so much support, feeling as though no man on trial for murdering his kids would be given the benefit of the doubt. I’ve heard Black people who were unhappy because they felt Clancy was given the benefit of hte doubt for being white. (And there were mixed reactions to the holdout juror being Black.)
I 100% get what you are saying here.
I can also say jury nullification is a thing and as a juror I can make my own mind up and vote as I like. Even if it makes no sense to you.
I will say my vote is well considered but it may not be to your thinking and/or liking.
In the video (linked here to the timestamp 26:45) it notes the person needs to lack control when the crime is committed. Literally they are not in control of their actions. IIRC this was an important part in this case. Did Lindsay know what she was doing?
It’s not about my thinking and/or liking. It’s about hundreds of years of jurisprudence that states people with mental diseases or defects are not to be treated by the legal system the same way people who do not have mental diseases or defects are.
Cite that she plead guilty?
Already did:
ETA: To be clear, her defense is insanity. To do that she admitted to the crime.
Exactly, she pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. And that doesn’t mean she did it. It means her lawyer thought it was her best chance in court.
You are also ignoring the entire argument being made by a large segment of the population: That she was gaslighted into believing she did it when in fact her husband did. Given the cocktail of drugs she was on and the nightmarishly bad treatment she was receiving both before and after the deaths, it is easy to doubt. “False memories” are not just for setting middle aged men free.
Oh my…
What?
(I don’t think this will turn out well for you)
OK. I’m fine with an argument. Just try to base it on something tangible this time.
Whole lotta people of either gender abandon their spouse in times of ongoing crisis.
In my time w my late wife’s struggles w cancer I heard many first-hand tales of spouses who walked away from similar scenarios.
Humans are often selfish and cruel in the face of implacable problems.
I am trying to recall another case similar to this one. I want to say they had four children, and a very fundamentalist Christian religion. The husband knew his wife had postpartum psychosis after the last child, but refused to use any birth control for religious reasons.
The last child did her in completely. Full blown psychosis. His mother was supposed to be staying with her and the children (home schooled, of course) during the day. But this particular day she stayed home for a few hours, to give the poor Mom “some time to herself.”
She used that time to drown her children in the bathtub. I remember she said she thought she was saving them, by sending them to heaven while they were still innocent.
Does anybody recall the case I’m thinking about?
So many parallels, but above all, they knew she was in psychosis and just did absolutely nothing to relieve the weight on her shoulders, or to protect the children. It’s incredible to me.
If Lindsay Clancy did do this, it really is an indictment of society at large. Where were the supports our taxes are supposed to pay for? In the UK, a nurse would have been with her at least when her husband was at work during the day. It’s just crazy how the US does nothing at all to support struggling mothers.
”One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest”
And @Aspenglow is absolutely right, asylums are no more pleasant than prisons.
Just remembered two of the facts that don’t fit:
Lindsay had crushing injuries to her neck. No explanation as to how those occurred. Strangulation would fit.
The bedside table was on top of some of the blood. As in the leg of it was physically on top of some of the drops of blood. And it was sitting in front of the window she came out of. How did it get moved back there?
I don’t know if any society knows how to deal with it. As someone who has had it, you develop anosognosia, which means the parts of the brain that monitor your sense of self that can tell you that you have psychosis are damaged. It needs to be dealt with the same way we deal with dementia. We don’t wait for dementia patients to voluntarily walk into a clinic and give them pills and tell them to take them at home.
It would be like if you were using your computer and people kept saying ‘you need to get medical help for that broken arm’ but your arm looks perfectly fine. You can’t figure out why people keep telling you to get help for your broken arm. The parts of the brain that monitor your sense of self and self image are damaged, so you lose the ability to understand that you have an illness.
However when psychotic, for whatever reason, you still have the ability to understand that other people are psychotic, and you have the ability to understand that other people think you are psychotic. You just lack the ability to understand that you yourself are psychotic. One medical doctor decades ago conducted an experiment where he put 4 schizophrenics who thought they were Jesus in a room together. All 4 came to the same conclusion, that the other 3 were mentally ill but that they themselves actually were Jesus.