Linux question

Factual Questions
1

I am currently using WindowsMe on a Gateway with Pentium III, along with a Compaq Presario 8760 running Windows 95. I am seriously considering switching to Linux. However, I’m worried about the compatibility of my Windows games. I’ve heard of “partitioning” a HD so that I can use both Windows and Linux. What’s up with that? Any help will be appreciated.

2
      • Partitioning a hard drive is separating it into two or more “virtual” drives. Windows will only be able to “see” and use the part you left for the Windows partition, and Linux will use the rest. You can decide which to use for each; get help with this if it sounds confusing–most Linux installers will by default use the entire HD, wiping out Windows. Most retail Linux brands come with a partitioning program that runs on installation; these can create and move partitions but some will not allow you to remove the Linux completely if you change your mind. You can set the Linux partition very small, in that case. There’s two ways to remove/delete the Linux partition, one is you need a retail partition program such as Partition Majic ($70). The other way is to reformat/reinstall Windows; Windows will then delete the partition and the whole disk drive, re-setting it all to Windows. Assuming the partition goes right, from then on Windows will ignore it. A screen comes up at startup with a default OS set, and you can switch to which OS you want to start, and you can set the default operating system back to Windows so the uninformed don’t get confused.
        ~
  • Linux can’t run Windows games that require DirectX, last I heard. The DirectX library is enormous, and nobody had been very successful reverse-engineering it, or was even trying.
    ~
  • Linux has a lot of neat features. It also has a lot of technical security and networking features that Win95/98 doesn’t have (so setting anything up requires a bit more effort), but it also can’t run a lot of hardware due to lack of suitable drivers (Windows driver files don’t work). Most USB devices don’t have Linux drivers available, and where Windows-whatever will perfectly detect and set up all your hardware automatically, with Linux (any brand) it’s a crap shoot if it can even find it at all. The basic stuff will work: the monitor, keyboard/mouse, floppy and CD-drive,but, for instance, the Linux I have cannot play DVD’s in the DVD drive, only regular CD’s. - If you browse the Linux boards you see people having all the same problems with Linux they complain about having with Windows, only more so. Linux drivers seem to be brand-specific; drivers for a couple of my devices intended for other Linux brands won’t compile properly -?- so just because something says “Linux Compatible”, doesn’t gurantee it will work with the Linux you’ve got.
    ~
  • ! All Linux brands are not alike; a retail version should have a small book included, but you really will need to find another larger one for the specific brand of Linux you have chosen. Different brands/versions offer different features, and all aren’t quite standardized. - MC
3

MC offered up a large dose of Good Information, and I’d just like to through in a handy dandy tip:

It might make things easier to pick up a used 1-10gig harddrive to put linux on. That way, you don’t need to worry about how ME will react to having linux on the same harddrive as it. Also, you can easily switch between ME and linux by messing with the BIOS, instead instaling a bootloader(such as LILO) onto your Master Boot Record.

On a related note, anyone know how to repair/reformat the MBR for win2k?

askol

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      • Further notes:
        ------- The main thing to know going in is that Linux-whatever is not a drop-in replacement for Windows-whatever. There’s some things Linux does better than Windows, and some things it does worse (or not at all). Where that blame lies is beside the point; you just want your computer and stuff to work right, and everything you have probably works right under Windows now. If you have a typical off-the-store-shelf PC, Linux probably won’t be able to match that. There’s lots of people online who will tell you that “Linux is great, and it does everything perfectly better than Windows”. Don’t believe it.
  • DirectX is a library of functions that games use to manage graphics, sound and game controllers, network play and several other game-related things. Some games use OpenGL (which is another non-MS library) and can run on Linux, and some games now offer installations specifically for Linux. Many normal Windows-type programs can be run on Linux under special circumstances, but games that require any version of DirectX cannot (it will say so on the requirements on the game’s box if it requires DirectX).
    ~
  • My Own Linux Story: I have Win98 and Linux-Mandrake 7.2 on a dual HD PC. I had a 6 gig HD originally, and bought a 20 gig, so I put the 6 gig as a slave and put the Linux on that. Mandrake is supposed to detect and setup hardware on installation, but it completely failed me on that count (most of my stuff is USB hookups, that it can’t detect). -It did detect everything not on USB, but none of those items has drivers available, so I still can’t use them. I have also found that none of the devices I own have specific Linux drivers available, and since everything works 100% in Win98, I never really bothered to tackle that problem. I said I was going to remove the Linux, but that was before I found that the Linux-included partition program seems to refuse to do that (it requires you to leave a Linux partition) and Partition Majic costs more than what a 6 gig HD is worth, so the Linux is still there, but I don’t use it for much at all. I mostly just poke at it now and then.
  • I also bought a general Unix/Linux reference book, that has been absolutely no help to me at all. That’s why I ephasize finding books on your specific brand of Linux.
  • Some people have good luck with Linux; in partiular, if all your peripherals are connected with serial ports you’re probably in pretty good shape. Problem is, USB is the most common type of connector for desktop accessories around now, and USB drivers for Linux are rare. ~ By far, the easiest way to get Linux running well is to put together a PC from components that you know in advance are Linux-compatible (they will be Windows-compatible also). There are numerous hardware lists online, and as far as I can tell each brand of Linux maintains a list of hardware they know their product can support.
  • I don’t know which OS is faster; I haven’t really run anything on Linux at all. Win98 starts up and shuts down faster than Mandrake, if you think that means anything.
  • I also don’t know which is more stable; Mandrake crashes less, but that’s because I never use it for anything. As it is, the Win98 hardly ever crashes or suffers errors; I have only a couple programs that will do it. - MC
5

I believe that fdisk can be used to wipe out the remnants of a Linux partition. It is included on any Windows boot disk. It’s also useful for wiping out the remnants of the Linux Loader (LiLo) after you get rid of your Linux partition. Fdisk is a wonderful little DOS utility that Microsoft really should mention more often.

The problem with DVD’s is that Linux is free, and thus you haven’t payed for the correct licensing to be allowed to play them. I don’t know of any retail Linux distributions that include a fee for this license. There is always DeCSS, but I believe that is currently illegal to even link to in the US, although I do think we are not all legally bound to pretend that it doesn’t exist.

6
      • Well sheet. As soon as I post that Linux runs none of my stuff, I discover one thing that it can in fact run.
        !
  • I ended up removing an old mode from an older PC, to enable it to run network apps on a LAN connection. I have 2 PC’s one is Win95, the other Win98/Mandrake-Linux. Win95/98 have their networking crippled; in particular, any network access attemp they automatically assume to be an internet access if any internet access is present and so there’s no way to access the LAN connection, if any internet modem or connection is present at all AFAIK. Linux has easy full networking support, but even though the LAN card box says “Linux compatible”, the driver files for the LAN cards will not compile properly in Mandrake, apparently being intended for Turbolinux. The OEM Winmodem on the Win98/Linux PC has no Linux driver available, and I didn’t feel like laying down a hundred bucks for a new external hardware modem just to get online with Linux.
  • Winmodems look different than hardware modems, Winmodems have only a few electrical components on the card while hardware modems have dozens. The old modem looks like a hardware modem, but the manufacturers’ website has a “driver” file you can download. “Winmodems” require Windows driver files you see, while hardware modems do not, and are more desirable for Linux use. I installed the old modem in the Win98 PC, and Win98 did identify the (unmarked) old modem and could run it properly, but listed a system file as the driver. For the newer OEM Winmodem, it also listed the same system file, as well as a brand/model-specific file as drivers. -And also a “ghost” modem, with the same properties and settings of the OEM Winmodem, but on the same port as the old modem. The ghost modem fails if I try to connect to it, and if I delete it, Win98 reinstalls it.-?
    – I had to try using both modems in Linux, because I can’t figure out which one is on which COM port in Win98. -And I find that Mandrake’s instructions can often be lacking; I couldn’t figure out how to start the network configuring tool, except for doing a “Linux reinstall/update”, and selecting network configuration specifically. The instructions for setting up a dial-up connection are also poor; many fields it says are “required” you just leave blank, because for a normal dialup account the stuff is assigned dynaically by your ISP.
    ~
    And so it goes, the old modem’s “driver” file is not really a driver file; it is really only a configuration file, but neither Win98 or the modem’s website told me that, I had to mess with it all myself to get it to work. I didn’t find the modem model listed on Mandrake’s page of supported modems, because it is a hardware modem. And I still can’t run my scanner, printer, USB-ZIP drive or graphics tablet.
This is not an unusual Linux story, and it's why the easiest way to get a good Linux PC is to build one from scratch on purpose. - MC
7

MC, I never had very good luck with Mandrake linux, but since I’ve switched to SuSE, I’ve managed to get everything working (scanner, printer, cable modem, hardware modem at one time and sound) quite easily as they have a nice graphical installation wizard called “Yast” and “Yast2”. The only thing I haven’t gotten working yet is my USB webcam, but I’ve been too lazy to update my kernal and learn how to set up the hotplugging.

Yeah, you won’t be able to get a Winmodem working because it is a device where some of the processing done by the hardware modem has been removed and is now done by Windows. This information is proprietary and is very difficult to hack by the Linux driver developers.

Pacelli, it all depends what you use your computer for. If it is mainly for games or graphics, I would stay with Windows. There are some things that Linux is well suited for, I run mainly console applications with my laptop and our main computer 1000 miles away and it is brilliant. I can have 20 applications running simultaneously and perfectly. Linux only crashes for me once a month. Win98 will crash daily, I think due to the nature of my applications.

There is a steep learning curve if you want to use Linux. Expect at least a couple of years before you a relatively comfortable with it. It can be damn frustrating at times but it is also really cool.

If you are going to partition a hard-drive for both OS’s, I recommend System Commander 2000. It has all the capabilities of Partition Magic. As well, it can be used as a boot menu and it resizes and moves Linux partions without destroying any information.

8

Father Pacelli:
In general, you don’t want to switch to linux if your primary goal is to run windows programs. Windows programs run under linux one of two ways: 1) you run a virtual PC which actually runs windows, and is slow, or 2) you use something like WINE, which is a 3rd party reimplimentation of the windows libraries that the programs rely on. WINE is far from perfect and complete, so running windows programs under it is, in my opinion, only really a last-ditch solution for programs you absolutely can’t live without. It gets better every day, but I still wouldn’t count on it working for your particular program.

Also, linux is a unix-like operating system, and despite all the nice GUI’s the various distributions throw on top of it, you still sort of need to be a unix nerd in order to really use it. The GUI’s are very nice if everything goes right, but troubleshooting problems still often takes unix skills. I would never recommend running linux as a primary system to anyone who doesn’t understand some basic unix concepts like “root filesystem”, mount points, /dev entries, etc. Tinker with it and learn, sure, but don’t take the leap and decide to “switch to linux” until you know what you’re getting into.

askol had the best suggestion: get a totally seperate hard drive to experiment with. I picked up a brand new 20G hard drive last weekend for 59 bucks! When first experimenting, completely unplug the windows drive, so there is absolutely no danger of Joe’s Friendly GUI Linux Installer deciding that you want to format it. Your data and time are worth $59. In various situations, I’ve had installers for various OS’s trash boot records on the wrong disks because of BIOS trickery (i.e. you’ve told the BIOS to treat the second drive as the first drive, but linux doesn’t know this, so it writes to the wrong MBR, etc), and it’s extremely hard to remember all the variables at times. Save yourself the headache and physically make sure the wrong disk cannot be written to.

MC, to get rid of the linux partition, you can also use the linux version of fdisk. It doesn’t have any silly limitations like some of the “idiot proof” ones have (it drove me nuts once when I installed redhat and it wouldn’t let me continue without creating a swap partition. Little did it know that I had a whole seperate drive intended for swap, but it wasn’t hooked up yet, so I was going to add swap later. Perfectly doable under reasonable distributions. Grrr.) If you can boot from your linux CD and see the linux drive, you should be able to get to a console and run “fdisk”, which is a fairly self-explanatory program if you know basic partitioning concepts, which you obviously do.

Boot from your win2k disk and go to the “recovery console” there are several programs available there which will try to fix common boot problems. I think one of them is called “fixmbr”.

9

[Moderator watch ON]
The question of “which OS is better” is a very valid question, but it’s not really GQ, and it’s not what the OP is asking. Let’s keep this thread on-topic, k?
[Moderator watch OFF]

For most games, the Linux version doesn’t come out until a few years after the Windows version, if at all, so you’ll probably want to keep Windows around if you play a lot of games. Personally, I would recommend that you keep one box pure Windows and convert the other one to pure Linux, just to keep things a little less messy. If you want to keep both Windows (multiplayer games, perhaps), then you might even consider getting an old 386 or 486 computer for fifty bucks or so, and put Linux on it.

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Well, I have an old computer (the Compaq) that I can dispose of if I frag it too badly.

Thanks for the advice. I’m going to stick with Windows.

Chronos, the word is “okay” or “OK”, not “k”. Laziness in speech really bothers me.

11

Chronos, I hope you didn’t take my post as somehow preaching about one OS being better than the other. I actually prefer linux myself. I just try to save some of the less, uh, nerdy folks some headaches by pointing out that linux isn’t really for everyone yet.

I definitely encourage experimenting with linux, but as I pointed out, protect yourself and do it in a safe way (I’d make the same recommendation about experimenting with windows on a linux machine – the installers for both OS’s have a decided lack of respect for each other).