This view of soccer is complete nonsense. You take an incapable 8 year old and put them on a team of properly coached, properly taught soccer players, and they will spend all their time being meaningless irrelevancies. I know this, because I’ve seen it. The idea that soccer doesn’t require as much skill to play as baseball is nonsense.
It’s only nonsense if you put a bad players on a good team.
I can put a bunch of kids that have never played soccer on a pitch and they can have fun trying to get the ball in the goal. As long as they are all similarly skilled, they can have fun. Soccer does not require skill to enjoy.
I can’t put a bunch of inexperienced kids on a baseball field and expect them to have fun. You simply won’t get enough hittable pitches to have a game.
Not quite sure what you’re saying here- are you saying the travel teams are good because they let good players self-select onto teams of players like themselves, or are you saying that the old LL scheme with everyone playing was good, despite the less capable kids?
I know this wasn’t direct at me, but I agree with Damuri Ajashi. The old LL scheme was tolerable when you had star players mixed in with the bench warmers. It benefited the bench warmers, but held back the star players.
So these travel teams popped up to fill a niche and allow star players to compete against other star players.
Now the Little League games are intolerable walk and error fests. And as he said, it is not fun for the parents or the kids.
The “everyone plays” rule, like all other good feeling but poor thought out ideas, have unintended consequences. And it is a poor life lesson; fail to perform at your job yet see if you “play” even if you did try your best. Only then dad won’t be able to yell at your boss.
As someone who spent my entire youth being the kid who got picked last and the kid who only played because everyone had to play, I want to know what age group we’re talking about here.
Every team I played on up to fifth grade was a “must play” league.
From 6th-8th grade the leagues were “no cut” but not must play.
Why are we pushing 8-year olds on to competitive teams?
I sure as hell wouldn’t have had fun if my coaches had the attitude that (because I was a very bad player) I shouldn’t have joined the team. Instead they emphasized teamwork and sportsmanship. And even though my final year on a team I only got into one game (when another player got hurt during the game and we didn’t have anyone left on the bench) I had fun during practice.
There’s plenty of time for talented kids to dominate once they’re older. Why screw the untalented kids while they’re still in elementary school?
I agree. Plus, as a parent of a not so coordinated seven year old, I’d be hacked if I paid the money just to see him ride the bench the entire time.
My thinking is that it ought to be everybody plays until the schools start handling things, which is typically middle school. If kids want to play private sports past that point, fine. They can cut. But until then, no.
Little League starts at about age 6 with T-Ball, then progresses through Rookie, A, AA, and AAA; after that the Majors, where players are typically 12.
I was lucky when I was coaching kids because I was coaching cricket. I was able to get around all the participation problems by having a team of only 11 players. No reserves, everyone played every minute of every game. If someone wasn’t able to play they just played short. The kids preferred that to the arrangement other teams had with up to 14 players and several sitting out each week.
You make it sound like every little league re-drafts all of the players every year. In every league I am aware of, once you are on a team at a particular level, you remain on that team until you age out of Little League.
As I described in my earlier post, in Vienna (Va.) Little League, every team re-drafts all of its players every year. This is partly because of the age requirements at each level. Only in the Majors do players stay on a team until they age out, because they can be drafted into the Majors early enough to play there for more than one season.
I do know not know what other leagues do.
You think it is fair for the star player, the kid with skills and who is more talented should have to sit on the bench for two innings to make another kid feel good?
That has been mentioned in this thread as destroying Little League because parents take the star players and put them on travel teams where they don’t have this rule.
Actually, I am in favor of the rule because it teaches kids the flaws in socialism at a young age.
At 8 years old we shouldn’t be worrying about promoting “star players” (if there even is such a thing) at the expense of everyone else who wants to play. There is plenty of time for that later.
It has been mentioned only as a matter of opinion and anecdotes; there is no data in this thread yet. And “destroying” is a bit hyperbolic. Little League seems alive and well.
Allowing pre-pubescent children to have field time when they are signed up for a sport has nothing to do with socialism.
[Moderating]
Let’s keep the talk about socialism in threads about socialism, shall we? This thread is about kids playing sports.
This is quite different than what I was posting about. And, of course, the solution to bad pitching is easy, and used by most Little Leagues when players are young: pitching machines.
Do you think it’s fair to ask the kid with skills to lay down a sacrifice bunt rather than hit away?
Where do you get the stupid idea that the best player gets benched? The least talented players share the “platooning” duties. Usually in right field.
I’m saying that little leagues were able to sustain themselves even with an everyone plays mentality because they basically had a monopoly on organized youth baseball. It was the only game in town.
Travel teams didn’t really affect little league too much because they didn’t really start until 16 (and then the age moved down to 13, then 10 and now its as low as 7) by the time you are playing majors, everyone observes the absolute minimum play rules mandated by Little League International (1 at bat and 2 defensive innings) and the bad players mostly leave of their own accord because they mostly get tired of sitting on the bench.
Now that travel teams are reaching down into the minors, the dynamic has changed. Most minors divisions has an everyone plays rule (except at competitive little leagues). This “everyone plays” rule is not required by little league. It is a self imposed restriction that started to flourish in the late 1980s and 1990s (and eventually culminated in an “everyone gets a trophy” culture).
If a little league has a vibrant travel scene in their area, they are going to have a hard time keeping this “everyone plays” culture because there is an alternative and the good kids are leaving and taking their dad-coaches with them.
Its not even just the star players. The stars were the first ones to go. Then the travel clubs realized they could make money by starting a “B” squad to play the “B” squads of other travel clubs. The “B” squad dads were more than happy to coach the “B” squad to get away from the much degraded level of play in little league when the really good kids left. That left little league with an even more depleted talent pool and pretty soon any kid that could get onto a travel team would do so. This left little league with such a poor talent pool that you couldn’t play games.
Kid pitch and up.
If you really were as bad as you say then you were probably in minors until you were 11. You are not required to be drafted onto a majors team until you are 12. When I say everyone plays I am not referring to the fact that everyone who registers in time must be placed on a team. I am referring to the play requirements that everyone must play an equal number of innings and everyone must play at least two of their defensive innings in the infield.
The Juniors level are mostly kids (13 to 14 year olds) that love the game but aren’t really that good. These are the best kids to coach IMHO because they want to get better, they try hard and they love the game more than you do.
The seniors levels are the same crowd as the juniors for most of the season and then the local high school JV squad takes over when their season is over.
We’re not. They are leaving on their own.
You can join the team but do you have to play 2 infield innings every game?
And that is fine, the kids that are not good but are still around after they hit the harsher mandatory pay rules, tend to really love the game.
I would say that the majority of kids who aren’t good are being dragged there by their parents.
Because without screwing them a little bit (they get stuck in the outfield) the whole league could fall apart as travel teams suck the talent out of the league. Treating all kids the same regardless of talent is slowly killing little league.
This isn’t every league but in leagues where there are active travel programs, this is frequently the case.
Then don’t pay. EVERY league does this when kids get to the majors level (mostly 12 year olds). If you aren’t a decent 12 year old, you are going to ride the bench a lot. A lot of the weaker players just stop playing.
Even if it means Little Leagues collapse in your area?
The “everybody plays” culture has invited travel teams to reach down to players as young as 7 to play on travel teams and they go because the level of play is so much more fun for the better players.