Little Punks...What To Do About Them?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

My nephew is a tall, skinny 14 year old who is a brainiac, just the kind of kid that the “cool ones” hate.

For two years he tolerated the taunting and abuse of two boys in his class, both inside and outside of the school. Last year, he started to fill out a bit and one day after school they started in on him and he lost it and clocked the ring leader. One punch and dropped him to the ground.

He was suspended for five days. Although I dont condone violence of any kind, I was very proud of him. The boys now stay away from him and he has earned the respect of a few other “geeks” as well.

Sometimes you just have to take things into your own hands, and this kid is a much happier fella because he did. I think he was even a bit shocked at himself for doing it.

I opened the door, and look who I found. Damn I’m good

22

Glitch, as a martial arts instructor, what do you think of martial arts for the bullies as well as the bullied? I ask because my brother-in-law, who is a very well spoken, well behaved, confident young man was evidently hell on wheels when he was 12-15, and everyone, including him, swears it was the karate that fixed him. I wasn’t around then, but my impression is that he was not ever violent, but he was a smart ass extrordinaire, disrespectful to his mother and teachers, etc. An all around snot, and much worse than most kids his age (they are all sometimes snots). The karate was evidently a godsend, even though he only did it a couple years, so I wonder if maybe it could help a lot of these kids who don’t know how to channel aggression properly. On the other hand, if someone is already violent, you don’t want to make them a better fighter. Have you seen many bulling types come through (or talked to people who have) and does it usually lead to good or evil?

23

It seems obvious that either Omniscient was a bully and thus can’t understand what true victims really endure, or he has embraced ignorance as a solution to the world’s problems.

Either way, some kids are definitely terrorized more than others, and some kids definitely terrorize more than others. I’ve even seen cases where adults, as members of the establishment, even encourage this freakish behavior. Actually from my experience, it’s been the coaches and gym teachers, the same people Omniscient praises, who relish most from this machismo behavior.

24

I am very glad to hear this! I am always encouraged when I hear about how martial arts changed/saved a persons life, as in similar ways it did for me.

And the short answer is (a long answer would take a lot more room then I have here), yes, it can help when taught by a good instructor. In fact, the specific case of how to channel aggression/energy is my view the case where it helps the most! When people are angry, adults and kids alike, they need a way to express and release that. Martial arts teaches how to acheive an inner calm (mushin => empty mind) that, contrary to popular belief, is a concious act that it very good for releasing anger (some think this is the same as bottling it up, but it is quite different).

Where martial arts sometimes fails is kids who are bullies because it makes them feel good. They get a satisfaction out of being stronger. Of course, martial arts only makes them feel even stronger. I believe that martial arts instructors have to have a sense of ethics with regards to who they teach, and to make sure the arts are not being abused. In my school, for example, I have a suspension/expulsion policy that is applied to adults and kids alike.

A few, and in my case, I think they all ultimately led to good probably because I care very much about the martial arts and how it is used and taught (I hope that doesn’t come across TOO much as bragging but I am proud of my school and my students). In fact, just recently I posted a question about the Army and dollars for college. The kid in question was undoubtedly headed for trouble, and I think the ethical and physical training in the martial arts has made all the difference for him. Of course, he was willing to make the effort, you cannot mold rock only clay.

That hints to part of the problem. Many instructors give only lip service to the ethics of the martial artist. They perhaps repeat the quaint little axioms that everybody has heard before or seen in a martial arts flick. “It is not good to fight, grasshopper”. These things are useless. The real meat is when is it good to fight, when is it not. How do you know when you are really in danger. Etc.

All in all, if a parent is looking to the martial arts as an aid (critical word) to their childs problems of esteem or being picked on, they must find the right instructor. You must interview the instructor and get his/her sense of passion.

25

When I was young, I was bullied; beaten daily, actually. Bad enough to put blood in my stool.

My parents took the “kid has to take care of himself” route. The school councilor said “we can’t expell these children just because they beat up your child daily”. I recieved martial arts training-- it didn’t help at all.

Because of this, I have been treated for clinical depression; am current under treatment for a gastro-intestinal disorder; & I suffer a great deal of pain from neurological injuries from the 4 times I was beaten unconcious.

Please do not dismiss your children’s needs. Do not say you are too busy to help. Contact the bullies’ families. But please do not brush off your child’s fear and pain with the trite phrase “Its’ just kids; lrt them work it out on their own.” Dammit–parents are supposed to protect their children!!

26

I can testify that, when I had a lot of anger at a person who started moving in on a girl I was interested in, Aikido helped me mellow out tremendously. I was in a nail-chewing mood for months; Aikido helped me realize the nature of conflict and chill.

Highly, highly recommended art, especially if you think your kid is the kind who’ll be doing some bullying. There are no offensive moves in Aikido; it’s a purely defensive style. So, they won’t learn anything that they can misuse.

27

Sweet Jesus, this thread makes me so grateful that I’m female and grew up in the late 70s/ early 80s.

All the way through elementary school I was teased, bullied and threatened, often to the point of tears. Somehow I was always able to avoid fighting. If it came down to it, I’d run away - and since I’m female, I could pretty much get away with it; additional teasing was not meted out.

My parents also took the “work it out yourself” angle. I remember having fantasies that they’d come down to the school, call the bully out in the hall and harangue him/her until they cried! I remember daring myself to get through a day of school without crying. I finally did it in 5th grade.

I believe that my childhood experience as a bully target made me the compassionate, friendly and open person that I am today.

That and the fact that I had absolutely no doubt in my mind that my family loved me. No matter what happened at school, I came home to people who cared about me and wanted to know what I did every day. During that tough period, we had dinner together every night. At least twice a year, we went on family vacations to fun places that I sometimes had a hand in choosing.

Tough subject, especially for boys and especially in these times. My heart goes out to parents. It’s a tough line to walk, the one between overprotectiveness and laissez-faire.

28

The only advice i have is for god’s sake don’t tell your kids to just ignore the bullies,on the assumption that the bullies will then go and torment a target that gives them the reaction they’re looking for. I got told this by insensitive lazy teachers who couldn’t be bothered to think about the problem.

The “don’t react” thing is the most common “solution”, at least here in the UK, but demonstrates a lack of understanding about bullies. These individuals are not looking to get their kicks by just getting a reaction( tantrum, tears, whatever) from their victim, they are looking for a reaction specifically from the kid they chose to target.

As to why they target certain people, i dunno but i can say that kids are NOT little people. They’re little animals.

I still don’t understand why the sort of behaviour, if perpetrated on the street in front of parents, that would lead to Actual Bodily Harm lawsuits is tolerated by them in the school playground.

29

Melanietarrant - <q>finally, i sent my boy on the bus with his kiss, and just as “Baby Huey” was opening his mouth to tease my son, I gave him a big kiss too and told him i love him too! right in front of the other kids.(made a show of it) any way, my boy didn’t get teased anymore.</q>

That is so funny! And it does work.

I’ll tell you another one like it:

In fourth grade there was something going on between Joey and Alice - always some kind of hitting, tripping, books falling onto the floor. One or the other was always pinched, scraped, or touched.

It happened in more than one classroom and in front of more than one teacher. On one seemed to be able to figure it out, each blamed the other, they’d gone to the principal, parents had been called in, and it taken up a lot of class and teacher time.

Finally one teacher took them both out in the hall, left the door ajar and we could hear voices and then finally a very loud smacking kiss.

The teacher came in alone (I think she sent them to the bathrooms to come back when composed) and said they had kissed and made up. We wooed and awed, and so on.

That was the end of it, never again in all of fourth grade did those two kids go near each other. Not a bump, falling book, a trip, a banged up knee - nothing.

Later on I heard that the Teacher had made the loud smacking kiss by kissing the back of her own hand. She must have figured the noise would prove the deed - for fourth graders, it was enough.

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

30

Should I say anything about Aikido being purely defensive? Not in this thread (it isn’t, at least to no more degree than any other martial art, sorry couldn’t resist), suffice to say, if you are looking for a martial art as an aid to your childs problem forget style and focus on the instructor.

As the OP itself and bullying, if possible you want your kid to resolve the problem themselves by going to teacher or the principal, etc. But there definitely has to come a point where you intervene, that point, IMO, is when you child is being injured or stolen from.

One excellent possibility is to take the bully’s parent’s to court and sue for medical bills and after several occurances emotional distress. If it persists, especially after that, feel free to call child services to talk to the bully’s parents.

“Glitch … Anything.” - Bob the Guardian

31

I’m a 14-year old freshman, right now, and I have had my share of teasing, especially around 4-6th grades. I was the straight-A dorky girl who had a few friends, and was teased by all the popular people with rare exception. I developed a thick skin due to all of this. I am still a straight-A girl, but less of a dork because of my confidence. My ability to just pass things off as stupid has been much more helpful than hurtful. Not being timid helps. I am a loud loud person. I used to be afraid when I was teased, but once I started stepping up and telling the teasers I wasn’t gonna take it anymore, they seriously backed off. If you are worried your kid is going to end up being the target for teasing, here are a few simple rules:

[ul][li]Don’t let them out the door looking like a scrubby mess. Make sure they are dressed well. (I’m not talking a 3-piece suit, I’m just saying don’t let them look like trash)[/li][li]Have them find things they are good at where they aren’t the dorky kid who nobody likes. Even in sports there are bullys, I know, but sports help break the “dork stigma”. If you think there is bulling going on in within the team, talk to the coach.[/li] Tell them they don’t have to just live with it. When people tease them, let them to retalliate verbally. Let them to make fun of the bully to his face. (It worked for me)[/ul]

32

ChrisCTP asked:

I think the general underlying consensus here is get involved and be supportive.

Obviously, there’s a danger to extreme measures of this- being too involved or supportive may make it harder for that child to be able to make decisions or stand on their own too feet later in life. But letting that worry keep you from doing anything is far, far worse a situation.

I was teased and bullied on a regular basis in school. Perhaps I could have weathered this with familial support and some sort of attempts to help me out. Instead, my father decided that he was tired of ‘fighting my battles for me’ (WTF? I was 8 fer chrissakes! Unresolved anger? Oh, no, not me) and I was forbidden to complain about the treatment my peers gave me. My life was hell until I reached the holy triumverate of losing my braces, getting contacts, and convincing my parents to buy me ‘cool’ clothes; after coming back to school as a complete conformist, my life got a lot easier.
Anyways. My suggestions.

Keep abreast in the events of your children’s lives. Hell, they’ll stop telling you anything once they hit thirteen, so best to get as active as possible right now.

Teach your child to defend him/herself, both through martial arts (listen to Glitch! Glitch rules!) and through humor (teasers do not pick on people who can retaliate. A child who can remember twenty stock insults and spew them out when teased will survive a lot better than one who reacts with blank horror).

Get involved as a helper in whatever organized activities your child is in. This gives you a great opportunity to keep watch on your child and the children around him/her and step in as necessary.

Make friends with your children’s friend’s parents, and keep in touch.

JMCJ

Die, Prentiss, Die! You will never have a more glorious opportunity!

33

Make an effort to get to know your child’s teacher, and have your child get to know the teachers and principal, etc as well. Many times, bully behavior either isn’t noticed or isn’t perceived as a “bad thing” until there’s a real child’s face to associate with the pain and torment, especially in larger schools where children are shuffled in and out like so many cattle.

34

My 10 year old daughter was upset when a boy at recess said, “Do you sit in my desk when our classes trade places?” (they switch for reading and math)

When she told him she did, he said, “Darnit, I thought so.” He would follow her around on the playground and bug her, teasing her about what she played, how fast she could run, etc (I thought he had a crush). Anyway, I told her to leave notes in his desk saying, “I was here HA HA HA HA HA HA” and “I put a booger on your chair, HA HA HA HA”, “something stinks in your desk”, etc.

Now when she talks about him, instead of being upset, she laughs. I guess he even laughed about it, and he doesn’t tease her anymore.

35

Sue.

36

ChrisCTP, there are a lot of good ideas here, may I suggest you print the whole thread and slip it into a bureau drawer and forget it.
When and if you ever need it you’ll remember, sit down, read it again and you’ll know where to start.

37

Chris, you will never have to worry about boy being picked on while I am alive. Just sic his Aunt Kitty on the little snots and I’ll take care of the rest. They’ll never find the bodies…remember the hole in the floor of my trailer??? :slight_smile:
But seriously, my girl is both bullied and the bully at school. There is no right way to deal with it except to do just that…deal with each individual situation as it comes and pray that no more of them do come.
All four of us (My brother, sisters and I) were bullied in school and each dealt with it in a different way. Mom and dad just worked on a case-by-case basis and it seemed, for the most part, to work pretty well.
I think he is going to do fine. Don’t let yourself give in to the “predisposition” for bullying crap. He is predisposed to be loving, caring and protective. Not to mention extremely intelligent, given his parentage, and he will be more than capable of figuring out the problems on his own.
Plus, if he does need help, we are ALL there for him because we love him. We can’t always be there to protect him but that is okay because he needs the space to gain his own confidence and he will learn how to protect himself. We certainly did. (Even if it took some of us 26 years to figure it out!)

I am not insane. I am just an average girl who enjoys the lost art of torturing small animals by duct-taping them to railroad tracks.

38

This is an impossible thing to teach a kid, probably. But I think it helps if they have a sense of humor and good nature. When I was a young girl, a Chinese family moved in next door to us. The sons were a lot older than me, so I heard this second hand from their mom years later, but she told me about how her oldest son had a terrible time when he started going to the local high school. He was the only Asian student in attendance, maybe the only Asian student ever to attend (we’re talking about a very small, very rural Oregon high school), and he felt very awkward and out of place, and he became a target. He ended up studying martial arts to defend himself, according to his mother. But the younger son was different. He was more laid back and self confident. He was quick to laugh and made friends easily. Where the older boy was an outcast, the younger boy was popular. The only difference was their attitude.

There was another boy in our school who was a stereotypical nerd in just about every imaginable way: tall, gangly, physically awkward, wore thick, Coke-bottle glasses, always had the same nerdy hair cut and clothes all through school, and incredibly smart. Senior year, he attended college in the morning and high school in the afternoon. To top it all off, his last name was Fink; what a name to be stuck with. (Don’t believe me? Here are some photos, courtesy of his brother–you really can find anything on the web.) But, again, he had a quick wit and laid back attitude. If life were a TV show, he would have been ostracized from birth, but he was popular.

Attitude does make a difference, but I don’t know how you can teach a kid to have a good attitude and sense of humor.

“I hope life isn’t a big joke, because I don’t get it,” Jack Handy

The Kat House
Join the FSH Webring

39

When I moved to Indiana from West Virginia when I was four, my entire family was the subject of neighborhood ridicule. We were hillbillies, dontcha know. Sure, the father is an aerospace engineer with multiple patents (including some, later in his life, for the space shuttle), and oh yeah, the mother has dual masters degrees in English and History…but they’re from West Virginia! White trash! Hillbillies! Our next door neighbor lamented how “ugly” our new house was–the grass hadn’t been laid down, and the mud was devaluing her property. My father’s response has pretty much been my learned reaction to bullies: mock the stupidity of their mocking. He told her, “Well, gee, ma’am, I was gunna go an’ plant sum corn to feed mah young 'uns!” She shut up, although indignantly, and we all laughed. My dad (and family) won neighborhood respect after that, too.

Me, well, it took longer. I’ve always been “different,” and I was just an easy target. My drawl was eradicated quickly enough, but I was just…well, different. I was a victim with uninvolved parents who told me to “ignore it,” which never worked. (I wonder just how many of us here on the SDMB were frequent bullying victims?) The neighborhood kids did absolutely unspeakable things to me. It probably would’be been better if they had beaten me up. Still in therapy for that shit. In any event, I never amounted to much on the elementary/junior high social ladder in Indiana.

I moved to California when I was 14. Everything was different. Everyone was different. I remember looking at a girl (who I later learned was just a hippie) and thinking, “Oh, she must be one of the really unpopular ones,” because of what she wore. In Indiana, that’s how it worked. Sure, it’s kindof how it worked here, too, but the lines were not as clearly and boldly defined. Nope, she wasn’t hugely unpopular–just a hippie.

Anyway, Chris, I would echo Omni and the others who have said teach your child to defend themselves. Yes, if things progress to a violent or otherwise abusive level, seek out parents and/or school administrators. But also equip your child with the skills to handle it themself.

The Nadia Comanici line is perfect–it’s the best when you stump a bully by reversing the meaning of their taunt. Some snotty brat in 9th grade looked at my lemon-yellow sweaterdress I wore one winter morning and said with a disparaging nose curl, “You know you’re wearing a sumemr color in winter?” My reply was a simple, “So? I don’t care. Why do you?” She was paralyzed–had no clue how to react. She never said anything like that again. Similarly, when I wore the sweater I’d made in a junior high sewing class (we got extra credit for wearing our projects), a fellow classmate snarled, “Nice shirt.” I replied “At least I can wear mine.”

Ah, that was beautiful.

I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better. Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura’s Stuff and Things

40

Just a couple days ago, my brother’s friend got attacked by a bully. He got punched right in the teeth and his braces came off and went into his lip. He’s going to need stitches for his lips and new braces. The parents have decided to sue the bully’s parents for the price of the medical bills.

That’ll learn 'em.