Little Punks...What To Do About Them?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Spinning off from “How come kids can be so cruel?” in the GQ forum.

I’d like to know how some of you would handle being the parent of the kid who always gets picked on.

I can’t imagine how I would feel if I knew that my kid was being picked on. I know he’s in for it though. He’s not going to be very big or very tall, he’ll probably wear glasses, and it’s looking like he has his daddy’s sensitive skin (which will probably not do much for him as far as keeping acne at bay.) It’s bringing tears to my eyes just to think about it. How on earth should the parent of an “abused” kid handle things? My mom’s programmed responses were
“If they’re acting that way, they’re not real friends” and “Kids will be kids.” I was unpopular from kindergarten all the way through high school, so clearly, mom’s words of wisdom were bullshit.

So? Do we call a conference at school with the teacher and the parents of the bullies? Do we march over to Mr. and Mrs. Bully’s house and threaten to put their little punk into a permanent time-out? I don’t want Bowen to fight, so I’m not terribly inclined to make him learn how, unless he specifically asks to take karate classes or something.

Also, how would you handle finding out that your kid is the bully? It doesn’t seem like a beating would be really educational, but not many kids actually listen when you try to talk to them rationally.

Wish I could invent a formula that will keep him a baby forever.

“…all the prettiest girls live in Des Moines…”
–Jack Kerouac, On the Road

2

You just posted the question for the ages, Chris. What makes humans bullies?

Wish I had an answer. Sometimes I think that being a geek and outsider as a kid, as painful as it is, makes a person a lot stronger, wiser and compassionate as an adult. But that line can be so awfully thin. Kids can be absolutely brutal and vicious to each other. The kids who snap and shoot their schoolmates are the ones who were picked on–and no one stepped in to stop the bullying.

It seems like the social compact has broken down. As vicious as “kid herd” behavior was when I was young, there was still an ethic from parents and teachers that bullying behavior was wrong. Even tv and movies showed the wish-fulfillment moral that bullying those weaker was shabby, second rate, cheap behavior.

I don’t know when it changed, or what can be done beyond surrounding the child w/ so much love and support that they know that they’re fine and valuable they way they are.

That was a surface and stupid answer. I hope other folks can offer better advice. I’m “wisdom impaired” on this one.

Veb

3

::sighing:: Any child who is “different” (and they all are in some manner) is going to get picked on. I don’t have great answers, but I’ve got two kids in that category. I never found a great method for dealing with it.

With Eldest Son, in sixth grade he was “target” for three other boys, who picked on him, I think, because he is smart, and he is sensitive. I talked to two of the parents. One of them couldn’t imagine that her little darling could be anything but well behaved, and figured that “boys will be boys” and my son must have been part of it. The other mom was concerned; we became friends ourselves and, interestingly, the two boys are now best friends.

Eldest Son is now 5’9" and 174 pounds, and nobody picks on him anymore! :slight_smile: Plus, he’s had some exoerience now in how to respond, and he’s got some friends; that makes all the difference.

I’m still worrying about Middle Son. Middle Son is one of the youngest kids in sixth grade. His birthday is early October, which means that he was 4 years and 11 months going in to kindergarten. I was prepared to hold him back another year, but he tested “ready” and the kindergarten teacher urged us to enroll him. If I had it to do again I would have waited that extra year.

He’s also one of the smallest kids in the sixth grade. He’s blonde, and he’s cute. “pretty,” even. Last year in particular he was taunted by being called “gay” and “fag” at school. The principal has come down hard on this, and has had meetings with each class, advising that this sort of behavior will get anyone caught at it expelled.

Right after Thanksgiving, through last week, he was being bullied by another sixth grader on the way home from school. Bullied as in, spat upon, and the kid told Middle Son that he had a razor and was going to “shove it up your ass.” Another long session with the principal, and the kid has been told that if it happens again, or if there is ANY retaliation, he will be expelled.

I frankly worry about Middle Son going off to junior high next year. He’s young, he’s small, and he’s very innocent. If I had lots of money I would send him abroad or something for a year, and then put him in seventh grade beginning in 2001 instead of 2000. If I could have him do sixth grade again for social reasons, not academic ones, and not have a stigma to it, I’d do that too. I’m just grateful, I think, that the junior high and the high school are on the same campus in this town, because I know that Eldest Son will watch out for Middle Son. ("Nobody beats up on my brothers except me! ;))

If I could afford to stay home, I would do so, not work, and home-school. But I can’t. And, bear in mind, I live in an affluent area with a blue-ribbon school district. It doesn’t make any difference.

-Melin

4

I have advice, but you wont like it.

Let him watch all that karate crap on tv,lethim play with toy guns, all that stuff the books say Dont Do!

Why?

Because he is gonna have to co-exist with kids that did all the crap above, and when they find out he doesnt play “death rangers” or whatever because he doesnt know how…well, you have created a targe. Guaranteed.

I know from experience. Ted went to a private daycare. Use your words Ted. No toy guns Ted. No Power Rangers Ted. Etc. I had a lovely sensitive well behaved word using victim! He went through 3 years of it before we moved, and now he watches all the crap,and fits in like every other kid.

And do what Melin did. Go to bat for him with the school. Institute your own ZERO tolerance plan. Tell the school you will only come to them ONCE, then you go over their heads, to a lawyer, whatever. Dont be afraid to be thought of as the hard ass bitch…sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold on to.

Very, very best wishes,
Kelli

5

I think the hardest part must be that no matter what, school is sometimes going to be painful, and you can’t stop everything. The question is, what is the “normal” amount of angst and razing that you should just let happen? I mean, you can’t call the parent of every child that dosn’t like your kid, but you don’t want to condone cruelty under the banner of “boys will be boys”. So what do you do?

The only real tip I have is that it is okay if a kid dosn’t have a lot of friends as long as they are happy. I was a loner as a kid and what I really wanted to do was sit in the corner and read my books. This was because I was a snob–the other kids seemed horribly boring, even then, especially when compared to the wonderfully exciting lives of the Hardy Boys. Occasionally well-meaning people would worry about me and encourage me to be social. I considered it a great pain. As long as the other kids left me alone–which they mostly did, or if they didn’t I was too engrossed in my book to notice, which is a distict possibility–I was happy.

6

My first-grader daughter was being picked on by a fourth-grader boy and his third-grader sister in our apt. complex.

I saw an incident and then followed the little jerk and his little jerk sister home, making sure they saw the irritated-giant-tattooed-redhaired-stranger mere paces behind him.

When they stopped and looked at me I said “You can run, but I’m bigger than you and faster than you and I am going to follow you all the way to your home and have a talk with your parents.”

The sister ran - like a little gazelle.

I followed, and had a nice long conversation with their mother - she was very nice, actually. She said she had no idea this was going on, and honestly - either due to her handling the situation, or their newly found overwhelming FEAR of me, they never bothered my daughter again.

It bears mentioning, that I would never resort to this unless violence has occurred between the chiildren. I know my kid is to blame also when the situation escalates and there are consequences for her too. She has a smart mouth and not too many friends.

I have followed other children home also - it really freaks them out. I stay 3 or 4 steps behind them - about a yard out of my arms reach - so they know I don’t intend to grab them. If they ask me why I’m following them, I tell them.

For what it’s worth, the parents I have subsequently dealt with have been happy to know that their children are acting out in this manner. I know I would be.

She wasn’t sure what to do, so she looked at how the government did things and decided to run her life that way.

7

err… that translated wrong. What I meant was they are happy to be given the information about how their child has been behaving.

8

It’s good to hear from everyone. I just wanted to make sure that you all are clear that I’m not actually experiencing such a problem, as my son is less than two years old and therefore, not subject to schoolyard bullying just yet. I’m just trying to get an idea of how to handle things when the inevitable happens…like I said in the OP, I know he’s not going to be big or “rugged”, he’ll most likely be wearing glasses at some point, etc.

I am also curious what you’d all do if your kid was the bully.

“…all the prettiest girls live in Des Moines…”
–Jack Kerouac, On the Road

9

If I hear anymore of this bullied kids snapping bullshit I’m going on a rampage of my own. Idiodic persmisiveness. Two wrongs, eh?

Anyways, your attacking this the wrong way. Don’t ask what to do to the bullies, don’t ask who to call to your kids defense. Teach your kid to be a individual, and give him the capabilities to cope with this stuff in a healthy manner. Fact is EVERYONE gets bullied, even the bullies. The 4th grade bullies are the first ones bullied buy the 6th graders, the 6th grade bullies get stomped by the 8th graders. The victims continue to be that, victims. Teach he kid to not be a victim. This is done in one way, and one way only. Confidence. A doding mother who subconsciously shows her kid that he’s weaker, and bound to be unpopular isn’t going to help anything. Size isn’t the factor, complection, or intelligence. Its that intangible attitude that victims all have. The bullies sense it, and prey on it. So what is a parent to do? Give the child valid reasons to have self worth and confidence. This isn’t accomplished through pats on the back for trivial shit, its not done through pep talks or security. Children need to feel that they earn things on their own.

The question now is how do I make the child feel comfortable with himself in spite of the awkward adolesence, and insecurity of school. A good method is sports, there are two ways to look at this. If your a pessimist you can see it as “if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em”. This isn’t valid because the athletes aren’t necessarily the bullies, in my school this was rarely the case, it was the metal heads or the rebelious “gangs” who did the bullying, but the stereotype is there. The other way to look at it is, sports give the child a method to bond with other kids who may or may not be potential bullies. It gives the child a competitive outlet where the pecking order battles in school get resolved in non destructive sports conflicts instead of playground fights and teasing. Finally this allows the child to build pure self worth. Not based on a parents reassurances, or on some internalized success (like grades). The child competes, and may succeed, on his own and often in concert with other kids. Socially this is golden, but more importantly the child knows that his acomplishments are his own, and not subject to personal perspective. The child learns that he is worthy, and in such will have a natural confidence that allows the bulk of teasing to slide off. Teasing is not a big deal to adults, we find fun in being on both ends frequently as adults, but this is caustic to kids, why? Because adulkts know who they are, and that they are important, kids need to find this out for themselves. Kids need a foil to prove this value to themselves.

If sports are not an option for one reason or another. (Insert rant about overprotective parents) You must find activities where the child has a chance to express himself and make social progress, while developing tangible worth. Spelling Bees and straight A’s aren’t the way to go (not that the inhibit any of this). These pursuits are internal and by nature of the competition segregate the child. Drama and theater or music can be excellent methods. They provide a social atmosphere and help him make visible progress in talents which are his own. I believe competition is integral to childhood (and adulthood for that matter) but these outlets don’t foster much healthy competition. They are better than nothing.

Now all this said, if a child successfully develops his confidence and self-realization he will cope with most teasing and bullying on his own in a mature manner. No kid should come balling home because he got teased about his hair. Most kids, no matter how well adjusted are going to likely encounter a bully that they can’t handle on their own. Whether its physical or just emotional a well developed child will be able to seek help in a timely manner. When he does it is important that decisive action be taken. If in school, take it directly to the principal an do not accept “kids will be kids” as a response, but also understand that your kid may not always be innocent, and your kid may be exaggerating or “crying wolf”. If this is a matter that needs to be discussed with anothers parents, do it calmly and preferably not in the presence of either child. If these parents are dismissive be firm, but not irrational or emotional. Use your best judgement as to how to cope with defensive parents, but remember to put yourself in their shoes for a moment to understand.

I’ve been rambling, and I hope this makes sense. Good luck, and don’t project your fears, or your childhood experiences on your child. It isn’t fair to him, and this protectiveness can foster a sense of helplessness in the child. Stay steady, and fair, but remember the child is a person, not a pet or an extension of you. Let them grow on their own, give them guidance, but don’t lead them by the hand.

10

Yes, please don’t bother Omniscient with facts like the so-well-established-it-isn’t-seriously-questioned observation that abused children almost always go on to become abusers themselves. It’s just bullshit, and he doesn’t want to hear it.

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

11

I really fail to see what relavence this has to my post, and where I contradicted the idea you expressed. I wouldn’t disagree, or are you just looking for a fight to kill some time?

12

Teach your kid to defend himself. I’m not talking about signing up for judo classes or anything, but just tell him that if someone physically starts on him, its perfectly alright to defend himself, and you EXPECT it of him. Also tell him that if you ever hear of him starting a fight, you’ll warm his hiney. If it’s serious bullying we’re talking about, do everything you can to intervene. Some kids are far worse then your everyday bullies. Also, help your kid develop his sense of humnor at an early age. It’s important in discerning bullies from smart-alecks, and it helps to win friends in all circles.

13

Signing up your kid for a TaeKwonDo (sp?)class would give him self-confidence. Self- confident kids don’t get picked on as much. The good teachers teach self-discipline and avoiding fights. They won’t encourage him to beat other kids up, in fact, the instructors will come down on a kid who uses martial arts against someone else.

Another thing I would do is help him use his anger and sadness to encourage empathy for other kids. Not just the ones who are getting picked on, but any “loners” who seem to need a friend. Not to make him say, “poor me, poor us”, but rather, helping him be kind to others who need kindness. Helping others would make him feel less victimized and would help him grow into a kind man.

If my kid was a bully, I would make him apologize to the kids who he bullied, separate him from any friends who he did this with (permanently),I would take away privileges that are the most important to him, and I would restore those privileges on a probationary basis. I would check with his teachers and other parents to ensure that his meanness has stopped. If not, I would put him in ballet lessons. :wink:

14

But you did disagree. You said you didn’t want to hear any more of this “bullied kids snapping bullshit.” Abused kids usually become abusers; bullied kids usually eventually fight back, often out of all proportion to the bullying. They’re related propositions, so you really can’t agree with one without agreeing with another.

If you were saying bullied kids DON’T snap, you’re wrong. If you were only saying it isn’t healthy for them to do so, I apologize.

In any case, if society at large gave as much recognition to academic achievement in high school as they do athletic achievement, maybe pushing kids to excel in academic endeavors WOULD instill the same confidence you say putting them into sports does.

It really pissed me off when I saw a news story a few weeks ago about the Columbine football team winning their first game or some crap and “remembering a fallen comrade.” Did they give the same coverage to, say, the chess club remembering a fallen comrade, or the Academic Decathlon team? Of course not, because only football matters.

I like baseball and golf and tennis as much as anyone, but for pete’s sake, can we please get a little perspective in our schools?

“It’s my considered opinion you’re all a bunch of sissies!”–Paul’s Grandfather

15

ok, my son was being teased at the bus stop every morning when he was in kindergarten.

and this takes a special kind of punk to tease a 5 year old right in front of his momma!

but i was in a weird situation, after all, i have to defend my son, but i can’t just go around clobbering other people’s 8 year olds either.

every morning as the bus pulled up, i’d give my boy a kiss on the cheek, tell him i love him and send him to school.(after all he was only 5)
there was an enormous 8 year old(we’re talking huge) and he would tease my son about his good morning kiss until he cried.

finally, i sent my boy on the bus with his kiss, and just as “Baby Huey” was opening his mouth to tease my son, I gave him a big kiss too and told him i love him too! right in front of the other kids.(made a show of it)
any way, my boy didn’t get teased anymore.

basically what i’m saying is, there are ways to deal with punks without fighting

16

It is only fair to say from the get go, in case you don’t already know, I am a martial arts instructor. It really doesn’t have much bearing on my reply, but again it is only fair that I qualify this answer.

When I was just a kid they used to call me the toothpick. I was thin and tall. I used to get picked on alot. I admit I went into karate for the wrong reasons. I wanted to learn how to kick butt! Fortunately, I had a good enough instructor who taught me otherwise.

Anyway, for me all it took was one fight after that. The next time somebody started pushing me around and hurting me, I clobbered him (to be honest, I think in large part because he was completely caught off guard). After that, in general, people left me alone. Every now and then, especially in my teen years, some jock would try to “prove” themselve against me, but all in all I think I avoided a lot of beatings by being able to defend myself.

Throw in the other benefits of learning the martial arts like confidence in yourself, discipline, etc and martial arts classes are highly beneficial even if the self defense aspect is suspect (for kids it doesn’t matter. No kid can effectively defend themselves against an adult, and against kids hardcore self defense is irrelevent, and in fact only likely to make your kid look ultraviolent).

Please make sure though that you find a good instructor with kids. Personally, I am okay with kids but my classes are primarily aimed towards adults or mid to late teens. I usually aim parents to other schools when they bring their 5-13 year old to me. There are schools out there that teach basically exercise to adults but good discipline to kids. Find that school.

“Glitch … Anything.” - Bob the Guardian

17

Two Samurai were riding across a wide river on a small ferryboat. The first was a shameless braggart and bully, the second a student of Zen.

The bully regaled the passengers with tales of his prowess as a swordsman, recounting his triumphs over other Samurai. The Zen Samurai kept silent.

Sneering at the show of humility, the bully challenged the other to a duel. The Zen student accepted quietly, suggesting that they stop at a small island in the stream to avoid harming the other people on the ferry.

The bully agreed, and when the boat landed, leaped forth and assumed his fighting stance. Rather than following, the Zen Samurai took hold of the boat pole and pushed the ferry back out into the current, leaving the bully stranded in the middle of the river.

As the bully stood astonished, the Zen student called to him, “This is how we achieve victory without using our hands…”

– Ukulele Ike, reminding you that the Way that can be shown is not the true Way

18

I think Omni has some good points.

When I was in 4th grade, I was in a gymnastics club and I was doing really well. I made this one special team on the club and a couple girls (5th graders) from the same school didn’t. They started calling me “Nadia Kennedici” (you know, Nadia Commenici, Romanian gymnast. Real original). Well, it really hurt my feelings and plus, they were big and tough and I kept thinking they were going to beat me up (which they never threatened to do). My dad said, “Next time they call you that, ask them if they want an autograph”. I thought it was kind of stupid but I did it. Freaked them out. It just didn’t seem much fun for them anymore when I took it as a compliment (so to speak).

Anyway, my .02 is:

  1. Teach them they have value and that other people’s opinions are not necessarily more important than theirs
  2. Watch over them as well as you can to make sure things don’t get out of hand.
  3. Help them to have pride in who they are and what they can do.

I think most of this is just part of being a kid. It’s your job to make sure it just doesn’t get out of hand.

19

Phil, I am just sick of people jumping on the “don’t tease the kids or they’ll go Columbine on you” bandwagon any time this comes up. Yes bullied kids could flip out, but I’m sick of people making excuses for the disturbed little bastards. Thats the bullshit I’m refering to. People get off on this sanctimonious attitude that they had it coming, and bully or not…they didn’t. You can’t talk about teasing in schools (which has happened since the dawn of time) without this veiled “threat” coming out. I’d for once like to keep this issue to appropriate scale on on topic.

20

Sports will prevent kids from ebing pciked on Omni? (I’ll leave alone the fact that the Columbine bastards were on the soccer team and that their coach pleaded with them to re-join last year).

I coached ragball for six years. I didn’t allow teasing or bullying, but on every other field where little boys were playing, I heard " you suck, Billy!" “You strike out again and I’m going to kick your ass!” “Just quit, you loser! Gonna cry now?” and the like.

Yes, the coaches should have stopped it, but a lot of the time, they don’t. Sports can work (especially if the coach doesn’t allow jerk-sih behavior), but sports are FILLED with bullies! The NCAA reports that male college football and basketball players commit rape and assault at 8 times the rate of non-athletes. Jocks and bullying often go in a viscious circle–building up muscles helps with bullying.

Involvement with the arts, sadly, can often be one of the quickest ways for a boy to become a target.

BTW, I do agree that being bullied still cannot justify use of guns. Also, students of mine who went to Columbine say that the so-called torturing and bullying of the bastards has been blown WAY out of proportion.

Bucky