For long-term durability (where long-term means somewhere between 10 and 20 years), which company has a history of building the better car: Toyota or Honda?
This probably belongs in IMHO but I’ll take the bait anyhow.
The history of the better car? That’s probably subjective. I like Toyota better than Honda myself (I own a Toyota Matrix). Most cars (even domestics) end up lasting a good amount of time. My Plymouth Voyager made it 350+ Kms and 10 years (it’s a 92) before needing a new engine (and 3 tranny’s but the Chrysler trannys were junk anyhow). And my 88 Bonneville made it until 2001 with 240+ Kms on it.
The Accord generally is considered the “best buy” but for long time durability, that depends a lot on how you treat your car. My friend’s 94 accord is still kicking even after some abuse but only after a new tranny.
If you look around, a lot of “old” cars tend to be domestic cars. So that really doesn’t help at all.
Remember, Toyota and Honda’s tend to cost more so you’re really getting what you pay for. If you need a cheap car, GMC and Ford have some great deals (no interest financing) which might save you $3000-5000 (CAN) that you could devote to “fixing” your domestic if it dies in a decade.
Honda’s near idol-like status amongst its owners has always annoyed me.
Make no mistake, Hondas are very well made cars. Its just that they’re not any better than Nissan or Toyota or even Subaru. They’ve just built themselves this cult-like status and people buy into it.
New and especially used, you’re always going to pay more for a Honda than any other Japanese car. And the extra money is pure ‘status tax’.
And as a former mechanic I can tell you that Hondas are a big pain in the ass to work on. They contain a lot of proprietary systems which are only there to make them hard to work on (except by those who go to ‘Honda college’)!
Forgot to mention:
As far as long-term durability goes, I find that Hondas rust much faster than most Jap cars.
Yup, Japanese cars (well, the big three - Toyota, Honda and Nissan) all run about the same as far as durability goes. And they are damn durable. My friend has a '96 Corolla with about 100,000 miles on it and he’s never had to do any work on it except routine maintenance. Basically, you do the scheduled maintenance you’re probably good for about 150,000 - 200,000 miles.
I’m a used car dealer with 15 years experience.
IMHO, Toyotas hold up better than Hondas. Most of my friends and family now drive Toyotas. I have seen many Toyotas with 200,000 + miles, with absolutely no problems at all.
Most of the Hondas I see with that many miles tend to have more problems.
Me? I drive a Mercury Grand Marquis, I like being comfortable.
Long term durability is an interesting phenomenon in that the original owner pays for all extra costs associated with longer durability but is unlikely to reap all the benefit. Yes, resale may be higher, but only fractionally and the original owner in many cases is unlikely to keep the vehicle for the duration.
Back in the late 70’s, Porsche did a study on what it would take to produce a car that would run reliably and economically for one million miles. They were unable to justify the cost, which I suppose would hold true today as well.
Beyond make of vehicle. maintenence or lack thereof is key. Many too many Honda and Toyota owners think these vehicles are so reliable they need only gas and oil. Many who do this ditch them at around 100,000 miles and unsuspecting buyers may not get the theoretical long life.
Well maintained vehicles can last a good long time but at a cost: tires, battery, shocks, struts, rack and pinion units, exhaust systems, alternators, starters, water pumps and even heater cores will eventually need replacement during the typical vehicle’s long life and at great cost in many cases.
In a bit of an IMHO vein, seeing as I know nothing about cars except my own experiences…
I’d have to ask them to be sure, but when my 2 best friends went to Australia, they bought a 1981 Toyota Corolla or Camry, with something like 200 000+ kilometers on it, and it was still going strong. They only had it for 3 months, though, and they invested very little money into it since it was only for the duration of their trip there, but they said it was a great car.
My family used to have a 1984 Corolla - we got rid of it in 1998 since it wasn’t worth it to repair a damaged hood due to a minor accident. The car was a rustmobile (we called it the Toyota Corroder), but it had spent about 9 years sitting in an outdoor parkinglot next to the St. Lawrence River in Quebec City. Enginewise, however, it had absolutely no problems. There was very little mileage on it when it decayed on us (about 98 000km for a 14 year old car), and the mechanic we went to told us that the engine itself could easily have gone another 5 or even 10 years. I miss that Crapmobile. It had a label across the side of it, covering a rusty gash which read “Please do not remove - label holding car together”. My brother was a funny guy. That car had personality!
We replaced that car with a 96 Tercel, which has had no problems except for a bit of brake work as the lease owner before we bought the car was tough on the brakes. It now has about 145 000km on it. The reliability of that Tercel is what prompted my father to buy himself one…a 97, with about 200 000km I think. My brother had bought a Tercel too, a 94, and sold it with 190 000km when he moved to Montreal.
My family likes Toyota, can you tell?
My mom’s car is a Nissan Altima. Been good so far, despite two accidents! It has a couple of chronic issues, but nothing too serious.
[anecdotal evidence]
My family has never had much money to spend on cars, so we tend to buy them cheap and used, and drive them until they totally die.
One of my parents’ cars is a 1980 Toyota Corolla. Yeah, it’s an ugly-lookin’ rustbucket – missing about half its paint, which is a common problem with silver cars of that era – but it runs fine and has about 250,000 miles on it. (I should note, though, that my parents are only the second owners, and the first was a mechanic for a Toyota dealership)
The other car of my parents is an '89 Taurus, and we won’t even start with that.
At the moment, because of an improvement in our financial situation and some savvy searching, I have the nicest car in the family, an '89 Accord that doesn’t look or run at all like a fourteen-year-old car with 190k on it. Beautiful interior, smooth handling, engine’s a little underpowered cuz it’s a manual but overall an excellent car.
As for more recent cars, two of my friends drive newer Corollas – a late '90s and a 2001, IIRC – and they’ve held up quite well, even despite a few unfortunate collisions in the 2001 car.
[/anecdotal evidence]
So, well, yeah. You might be able to get some more accurate reliability figures from Consumer Reports or someone, but any of the big three Japanese car companies is a good bet. They’re probably about even (esp. if you don’t count all the people who buy Honda to rice them up and then drive them irresponsibly) (yeah, I know not all ricers drive like thirteen-year-olds screw, but many of them seem to around here).
In my opinion, nobody beats Toyota for long term reliability.
For a factual answer, check out http://www.consumerreports.org. They have good statistics available, but it’ll cost you a few bucks.
I don’t have a precise cite, but I have the general perception that I’ve seen the automotive press criticize Mitsubishi in particular for having lower quality than the rest of the Japanese automakers. I think one author went so far as to accuse them of having American-stle QC.
I’ve never trusted the auto reliability ratings of Consumer Reports. They only use the experiences of their subscribers that choose to return the annual survey. Not an accurate sample overall IMHO. I’ve owned some of the cars they’ve rated as unreliable and they turned out to be pretty good cars.
Most people I know seem to hang on to their Hondas longer.
MGB i know it’s not japanese. ,but i have had mine since i bought used since high school with no major work besides brakes and oil changes and it still runs strong it’s a 76. needs a new top and interior though.
I’d go Toyota over Honda, however the idea of “Japanese Quality” is a holdover from when the big three were playing catch-up during the mid 80s. Almost all automakers share the same quality levels nowadays. Washington Post Editorial
In terms of the reliability reports for consumer reports, there are many known issues . The problem is that their ( likely deserved ) credibility for laboratory testing spills over to make it appear that the reliability reports seem equally as credible.
Ask people that own domestic cars and trucks, esp those build in the last three years. Talk to service mechanics that do repair work for a living.
The continued perception of Japanese Quality being somehow surperior to every other auto manufacturers’ affects our US economy directly. When people make jokes about " I wouldn’t knowingly buy a faulty product based on where its made, but when other factors are equal I buy American.
As others have said, the key to durability is proper maintenance.
I have a 90 Honda Accord that I bought new, and aside from oil, brakes, belts, etc., the only repair I’ve had to do is replace the muffler. No big deal. It’s been extremely reliable, but I’ve always taken care of it.
According to cars.com , Hondas rate slightly better than Toyotas, although the difference is very slight. Nissans fare considerably worse. Lexus is best overall.
RR
Thanks for all the responses. The reason I ask is because a friend and are in disagreement over the issue. I was hoping there would be some kind statistical evidence, but it looks like that’s limited. Thanks again, though.
Doctordec, I believe you are thinking of Consumers Digest. Consumer Reports is widely known and respected for doing rigorous independent testing of products.
Consumers Digest, however, does use ratings methods that are sketchy at best.
Topical P.S. My family’s a Toyota family through-and-through.
Beefymeg, he was talking about Consumer Reports, and I agree with him. Unfortunately, a recommended buy from this magazine directly results in an increase in sales.
my link reposted from above - Consumer Reports: What You Should Know
I recently saw a newspaper article about a guy who is a bank courier, he drives a Honda - I forgot which model - and had just rolled his odometer over for the second time. That’s what, two million miles? I tried to google for the article but couldn’t find it.