Using that logic then Christianity saved the world because The US was predominately Christian.
Surely the most fundamental thing driving the idea that Islam is the enemy is not a mickey mouse argument about which religion has crazies.
It’s that, where nations are Muslim majority, freedoms and daily life suck for women and non-believers.
It’s hard to convince relatively secular western nations that, unfettered, Islamic tenets do not drive shitty societies for women in general, and any male non-believers.
Western democracies have generally relegated religious beliefs to holiday traditions, and demoted nuttier foundational religious tenets based on holy scriptures to the book shelf, subjugating them to what we consider more reasonable, enlightened laws.
O ye pharoahs, let us walk
Through this barren desert, in search of truth
And some pointy boots
and maybe a few snack crackers.
Surely rather it is the mickey mouse arguments and not any actual comparative of like to like development levels knowledge of our societies, or my place in them, or any thing other than using the pretext of women in the muslim societies to dress up the prejudices in some plausible excuse that drive this.
But perhaps it is like the ever searching for “competence” for the Ebola treatment…
The unescapable fact is that the U.K. is under the highest threat alert of a terrorist attack by an Islamic fundamentalist group, another truth is that the so-called good Muslims are not taking to the streets and protesting NOT IN OUR NAME. The people of the U.K. are sick and tired of listening to Muslims denying that there is a massive problem within their religion. Our security services are defeating threats on a daily basis any one of which could kill and maim hundreds. Those planning to tear us apart with bombs are Muslims, those threatening to kill us with chemical weapons are Muslims, those threatening to mow down innocent woman and children with automatic weapons are Muslims. The truth is that the border force that is supposed to guard our borders are a complete failure, we do not know who is coming into our country. It has been announced today that the civil service does not know the whereabouts of over 1,000,000 illegal immigrants mainly Muslims. We are rapidly running out of options. Yes Islam is the enemy
Of course not, but the great new Protocols of the elders of the islam seem to be those of the silences.
I’ve got no problem with someone who wrongly says that “Islam” is responsible for current terrorism also wrongly saying that “Christianity” was responsible for the Holocaust and also wrongly saying that “Christianity” saved the world from Fascism in WWII (doubly wrong because it displays an incredible ignorance regarding the role played by the Soviet Union). They are all dumb statements, none of which are accurate, but they are logically consistent in assigning responsibility where it does not lie.
meh
You correctly start out with a declaration about “Islamic fundamentalist group” and then shift into oh, I think I’ll just blame all the Muslims for the fanatics mode.
We did this stupid dance for decades with “communism,” acting as though anyone who ever quoted Marx was intent on destroying the world. In the process, we caused the deaths of millions of people and propped up dictators, (who often suppressed the Muslims in their nations so that when the USSR fell and we stopped propping up those dictators, the suppressed Muslims often led the revolts and now hold power). (This is not a claim that the Cold War was not real, but by portraying it as a fight against “communism” instead of recognizing that it was the run-of-the-mill struggle of empires, the West harmed and alienated a lot of people whom we could have befriended or at least not made enemies. Now, too many people, needing a constant enemy, want to repeat those errors by pretending the enemy is “Islam,” forcing potential friends who happen to be Muslim to be treated with undue suspicion and creating enemies where we could be establishing friendships.
As to the lack of Muslim protests against terrorism, that is mostly a matter of news agencies not bothering to report when Muslims do oppose the fanatics. Taking to the streets is not going to stop the nutcases, anyway. However, I note that you ignored the protest in London that happened just ten days ago. If they march and you ignore them, why should they march?
I stated a proven fact that those who wish to kill us are Muslims, this is a undeniable fact, please do not try and make out that I am accusing all Muslims I am not. The undeniable truth is that there is an unseen army in the U.K. that wishes us harm
There are lots of people who want to kill us, mostly white guys. That is an undeniable fact.
You are making the mistake of forgetting that Islam is a global religion and is not limited by race or colour, so yes there are white guys AND girls who wish us harm
So how can we take the chance when we allow white guys to immigrate to the US? Why not ban them all, just to be on the safe side?
When you move from “those who wish to kill us are Muslims” to “Islam is the enemy,” you are, in fact, accusing all Muslims.
This is the level of your logic:
Everyone who wants to kill us has dark hair.
People with dark hair are the enemy.
Heck, it is not even true that all Wahhabist Muslims have murder on their mind, although at least if one limits one’s opposition to Wahhabism, one takes a step in the direction of not fearing and hating millions of innocent people. Focus on the extremists who really are a threat rather than bundling up over a billion people in your fears. Rather than blaming “Islam,” you would be better off seeking out Muslims who share your concerns and working with them to root out the actual extremists. The result of saying “Islam is the enemy” is that Muslims who oppose the extremists are treated as the enemy and their kids, seeing that treatment, are more likely to join the extremists.
In the context of your reference to 8 people, I think “terrorist” is not so much the use of guns by crazies against innocents, but the use of guns by crazies in the name of a religion against innocents.
Pew asked US Muslims this question in 2011:
“Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified. Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?”
(My numbers extrapolation uses an estimate of 7 million US Muslims)
Often justified: 1% (70,000)
Sometimes justified: 7% (about 500,000)
Why should terrorist be defined solely by those killing in the name of religion? Is it it somehow less terror-inducing than if they do it because they oppose abortions?
Wouldn’t you be accusing Islam, and not Muslims?
Islam the religion really is the enemy.
Consider how its religious promoters throughout its history have called for severe penalties against apostates. Blasphemy laws, oppression against women and non-believers, and assorted other crappy approaches to building a free and open society all derive from Islam the religion. From a western perspective, nations where the society is built upon Islamic tenets are horribly oppressive and backward,
If we just let the people who are Muslims decide what to do (and got rid of Islam 
), I think we’d be fine. People are people, and upon exposure to western democracy and modern enlightenment about how to build a State, are generally pretty darn amenable to a superior approach.
But I think Islam and the acceptance of the Qur’an/Hadith as the bookmark by which to live and create a society are exactly the problem, just as it would be a horrible problem to create a society built upon the Old Testament law.
I’m OK with the idea that crazies for stupid causes can all be lumped under “Terrorism.”
I note that your typical nutcase mass murdered with a gun is a loner with a fairly personal “cause” versus what is usually meant when “Republicans” throw around “terrorist” as a substitute term for a violent jihadist operating in the name of a much more broadly accepted cause with an large, organized base.
I don’t see the discussion value of pretending that all crazies with guns who murder innocents are lumpable. There is quite a difference between large groups waging a certain kind of war promoting terrorism as a weapon, and psychos acting on individual impulse. Terrorists in that second group are not psychotic except to the extent that religious believers are in general deluded by belief in the supernatural.
My point exactly. When religious fervor devolves into terrorism, it is indistinguishable from madness. Run of the mill religious belief is just harmless self-delusion. I don’t see why suppressing the former must be extended to the latter.
Except that religion is at the core of Islamic terrorism. It’s the direct cause. It’s not a function of terrorists who happen to be Muslim, it’s the driving force behind the acts. They are directly attributable to the writings and actions of Mohammad. Not indirectly, directly.
Because of that there are religious leaders within Islam calling for acts of violence based on the tenets of the religion. These are not suggestions given, they are specific commands. We see the result in the huge list of terrorist groups attributable to the religion and from that we see training camps dedicated to the brainwashing of small children into warriors.
Any PC attempt to hand wave this away ignores the reality that most Muslims live in countries where Sharia is incorporated into law and they support laws against blasphemy.
No other religion today generates the visceral hatred and violence that we see in Islam and it shows itself in the non-stop violence over simple things like cartoons or anyone who expresses an opinion that is counter to the religion. That violence is a direct result of their views on blasphemy.
Then why aren’t more of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world terrorists? Are they just bad Muslims?