This spring (probably April) we’ll be getting another dog.
Our last dog died 2 years ago, it was a Lhasa Apso and was very difficult to manage. The reading I’ve done recently tells me that Lhasas are generally considered to be the great satan of the dog world… :smack: that would explain a lot.
Allow me to explain:
Everyone in the house works, so the dog would be alone 8 to 6. We live in Canada so the dog has to be able to handle the cold reasonably well. Our house is tiny so a small dog seems kinda appropriate. Finally, Paws to Consider insists that Shi-Tzu’s are the opposite of Lhasas in terms of temperment. Wonderful! I’m looking for a happy, relaxed dog, not a four legged dictator.
My only issue about the Shi-Tzu is that they’re small dogs. I’ve always wanted a dog which can play fetch, a dog that can keep up with bigger dogs, a dog that’s about as tall as my knee
Wow, that was much longer than I’d intended. Err… what were my questions?
Oh, yeah:
Would anyone care to recommend a 9-5 dog that isn’t so diminutive?
We understand that housebreaking a Shi-Tzu can be difficult (it was a nightmare with the Lhasa). I’d really appreciate suggestions on a training book. We played it by ear with our last dog, we’d like to do it right this time.
Also another breed I’m interested in is the Border Terrier. But I’ve read that the dogs are notorious for running into traffic (we live close to a major intersection). Could any Border Terrier owners could confirm or deny this? Would the BT be too high energy for our lifestyle?
I expect that we’d walk the dog once or twice every evening and let it run in the fenced yard in the morning. (What we did with the Lhasa)
My aunt has a Shi Tzu, and she can’t leave that dog alone for more than 20 minutes at a time. Any more and Pebbles (the dog) goes apeshit, yowling like her little heart is breaking in two. She’s not a leave-at-home pooch by any means, and my aunt still hasn’t managed to housebreak her yet. Also we have to dress her in little sweaters because otherwise Pebbles gets too cold, especially when she’s been clipped (and you’ll have to keep it clipped).
With your needs, I’d suggest something else, not a Shi Tzu.
I know some people who own only small dogs, and they’re all really high energy and insane. Princess, our herd dog, is better mannered than their dogs, but temperment varies a lot from dog to dog, so I don’t know that that’s saying much.
I think you might want to look for a low-energy dog who can still kick it up every once and a while. Why don’t you rescue a dog from a shelter, who’s older, but not too old to romp every once and a while?
I talked to my mother, dog enthusiast, what she knew about sheepdogs, and she said they mostly lie around and keep an eye open, because they aren’t herders like Aussies or border collies – they’re shepherds, guard dogs. (I could be totally wrong. Please point out if I am.) If I were you, I’d stay away from herding dogs, which require a lot of exercise and are really energetic. I really encourage you to adopt an older dog, as it’s really difficult to get dogs adopted after they hit six.
As the owner of two Border Terriers, I advise you not to get one. These dogs are happiest when with their people. They believe they should accompany their people everywhere. A Border would not do well in a house all alone without human companionship. They are notorious for separation anxiety. And yes, they have a lot of energy. They are wonderful dogs, but I don’t believe a Border Terrier fits the criteria you’ve set forth.
My late Golden Retriever did very well on her own for several hours, but she had the companionship of another dog. She had a relatively low energy level, too.
“Smaller dogs are easier to manage” is a big mis-conception. IMHO, whether a dog is a good “home-alone” variety depends on largely on crate training and whether the dog could amuse itself while being left alone.
I have two bulldogs and aside from the initial cost, I swear they are the perfect pet breed for today’s families. Cartoons have it all wrong - they are the sweetest dogs around. They know they have to be extra gentle with children. Everyone and everything is considered a friend, even cats and squirrels. They have virtually no hunting instincts left. (they are lousy watchdogs - if they scare a burglar away, it will strictly be because of the stereotype, not your dog’s behavior). Mine were both house trained inside of a week. They stay home all day and do nothing but sleep while we are gone. They sleep most of the time when we are home, too, actually, now that they are older. You don’t need much room because they can be so inactive. They sleep in with us on the weekends - none of this dog waking you up at the crack of dawn stuff. I sometimes have to shake the one to get him up to go out in the morning when I leave for work. They will play fetch and such for about 15 minutes (well, longer as puppies), then they have to go sleep it off for 3 hours. They are about 60 pounds, but think they are lapdogs. They don’t mind the cold - they hate the heat, though. They only drool after drinking water or if you are taunting them with a treat. They are extremely loyal - which can be something of a downside, too - my female won’t eat for three days if I go away on business. They are not runners, as far as into the street or getting away period. Even if one tried, I can run as fast as they can. I don’t have a fence and mine stay in my yard. When they were younger, I only worried about them following children home in terms of running away. They are not stinky like some sporting dogs can be with their oil to protect them from water and whatnot (but avoid table scraps - they can be stinky from the other end if not fed quality dog food). They are really intelligent, so you have to know how to teach them who is the alpha in your house when you first bring them home.
But, the sourmug look isn’t for everyone. They don’t have much of a tail, so you learn to read the rest of the body language and other noises they make- ears, posture, etc. Mine do a happy dance when they see you, wagging their whole bodies instead of tails. They usually snore. They make all kinds of other noises, too. My male can’t whine for some reason. When he wants to whine, it comes out sounding like a growl to someone who has never met him before - it’s a throaty gurgle. We can tell the difference, though. I am so used to all the snorts and snuffles I don’t think about it. It grosses out the faint of heart who come to visit. “Good grief, aren’t your dogs ever quiet?” Aside from all that kind of noise, they almost never bark. They bark if they are startled or if you shake keys outside the door. They bark if they need your attention - to go out, come in, play with me, let me out of this stupid crate now that you are home.
I think I beat you in terms of rambling! Sorry. As you can see, I would be happy to discuss bulldogs further if you are interested.
I’ve known 2 bulldogs-Tuffy and Mildred.
Both great dogs>like to come to you and sit,their greeting on first arrival was kind of wierd first time it happens,
Mildred nearly knocked me off my feet the first time she came running to the door to greet this new human.They’re heavy,considering their size.
Was kind of startled this dog had as much weight,to my feel at the ankles,as a 140 lb.Corso had to my thighs.He (the C.Corso) liked to lean against you for petting when standing.A big Boxer did the same (about 80 lbs.from my guess.)Also saw Tuffy run after a rabbit and he was motoring.Never caught the rabbit tho.One trick he had was carrying around a 10lb.weight from a barbell set around,like other dogs carry toys or balls,
Boxers are also great dogs but I don’t know about the left alone part.Most big dogs I’ve known seemed to be very prolific sleepers,and I’ve heard the bulldog’s snore.
I have to admit I was kinda hoping for “Hey, a shi-tuz is laid back go for it!” Instead I’ve found that I have a lot to think about. At least I still have a couple of months to do the thinking.
Regarding the suggestions thus far. Paws to Consider (I should really start referring to other books) explicitly does not recommend:
-Bulldogs for health reasons. “…the Bulldog is for people with deep pockets. Possible health problems in Bulldogs: The Control of Canine Genetic Disease by George A. Padgett, D.V.M., lists 73.”
-Chows because of aggression. “Pet professionals who responded to our Internet poll cited Chows among their lest favorite dogs to deal with. Aggression was their complaint. A chow may be wagging his tail one minute and attached to your forearm the next, with no visible warning in between.”
I’d need to find other sources of information before considering either of these breeds. (Calliope, chrisk72, please don’t kill me )
Calliope: Border Terriers have been removed from my list. Leaving such an energetic breed home alone doesn’t seem like the sensible thing to do.
lillalette: I’ve added the Shetland Sheepdog to my short-list of breeds to consider. The main complaint about the breed is that they’re high strung and nervous. I think I can deal with that.
Regarding getting an older dog… although morally I know I should, I don’t think I will. I’m worried about the unknowns (past owners, temperament, health problems). There is also the ubiquitous: "Older dogs die sooner " and “We’d like the dog to grow up around us”. I do plan on visiting the local shelters before getting a dog to see what the situation is like though so there’s still hope I’ll see the light.
FilmGeek: Do you leave a lab-mix home alone? I was planning on getting a lab/lab-mix until a friend of mine gave away her much loved lab/Border Collie mix. She felt awful about leaving such a high energy dog home alone while she was at work. I understand the Border Collie part of the dog was probably the source of the energy but I’ve been wary about getting a lab since.
Someone suggested a lab, and someone suggested a chow chow. In fact I’ve got a black lab-chow mix who’s a particularly loving dog, but can take being alone from 8-5 every day without being destructive. She’s attractive and about sixty pounds. (She could have a shi tzu for lunch if she wanted to. But she wouldn’t. Such is the beauty of Princess. She even gets along splendidly with the four cats, none of whom had ever been around a dog before we got this six-year-old one.)
Cheese Monster, one of my 4 dogs is a lab/chow mix, too, but he’s gold. He is also a love bug, but very content to stay alone. I think he gets his independence from the chow and his affectionate side from the lab.
Pung, in additon to my lab/chow and my 2 Borders, I have a husky. She is the sweetest dog in the bunch, but while she will stay home alone, she prefers to be with people. Her biggest drawback is the HAIR all over my house. I could knit a sweater from what she blows in a week!
All of my dogs are pound pups or rescues, so don’t be afraid to look into this option. I have found rescues to be very grateful, loving dogs, no matter their history.
Pung, I was in a similar situation (I work full time and live in a mid-size apartment–800 sq ft or so, no yard) and found the book “The Right Dog for You” to be helpful. It seems to be well regarded, it covers a lot of breeds, and presents the information well.
You might want to take a look at the sighthounds–they tend to do well alone, and many of them are inactive indoors. You especially might want to look into getting a rescue greyhound: they’re good alone, inactive indoors (despite the lean appearance, they’re couch potatoes), and come as crate-trained adults. It’s what I would have done if I wasn’t able to telecommute for the first few weeks I had my puppy…
PUGS! I’ve had them for over 25 years now and will always own one. We also have a West Highland Terrier, but he’s a little more demanding for exercise. A Pug pretty much will move for 4 things. Food, bathroom, climb up next to you to sleep, and approx 74 seconds a day of roughhousing. And you won’t find a better temperment in general.
Pugs are… small. He’s looking for something not so… small
I think that what you have to consider is not a breed as much as an individual dog. Aim to find an older dog looking for a home rather than bother with a puppy who won’t be able to stand being alone longer than 4 hours at a time. With an adult “rescue” dog, you will also know what you’re getting into, personality wise.
Breeds give a good indication of temperament, it’s true. Mind you, lno and I have a border collie/sheltie cross who is anything but a border collie OR a sheltie. He’s a RUG. With teeth. He can go 14 hours without human interaction or anything. From the breed cross, you’d expect a totally wired dog. My Toller is laid back, but can’t handle being home alone too long. My Aussie is insane, so don’t even THINK about that for her… though there are male aussies out there, from show lines, who are good “stay at home dogs”.
Retrievers are usually mellow past the age of 2. A nice retriever cross could do well for you, and would potentially play fetch Many German Shepherds also do well on their own for long periods of time…
The best thing to do is visit the shelter or the rescue groups, test some dogs, and figure out what works best for you… unless you want a puppy.
If you want a puppy, find a breed you like, and find a GOOD BREEDER TO WORK WITH. Ask for a puppy somewhere in the middle of the pack - not dominant, and not submissive, who is mellow and likes to be handled.
Have you considered a Shiba Inu? We currently have a 3 year old Shiba, and he sounds like a good fit for what you’re looking for.
He’s not a huge dog - about 30 pounds, comes up to my knee - but acts like a big dog. He’s definitely NOT a yap dog.
He’s active when you want him to be, and not active when you don’t. For example, he’s perfectly fine sleeping all day (and night), but if I get down on the floor and start playing with him, he starts playing right back. His favorite game is keep away - if he thinks you want his toy, he’ll taunt you with it, run around, etc. etc. When I’m done playing, he typically lays back down and goes to sleep.
He’s fun to play with. He’s really, really fast and very athletic. He leaps like a deer, and is very graceful. Many people have commented on what a beautiful animal he is. He’s almost catlike in his reflexes and movements.
I wouldn’t say housetraining was particularly easy, but neither was it particularly hard.
He’s an independant dog. Unlike our pug, who is very social and wants to be on my lap all the time, he’s happy alone. We both work at home now, but for the first couple years of his life we didn’t, and he was alone in our fenced backyard most of the day. Never seemed to be anything but happy with that arrangement.
He’s pretty laid back, yet affectionate. When I go sit down on the couch, chances are he’ll come join me and lay his head on my lap. However, when I’m working, he doesn’t come scratch at the door and insist he’s allowed in.
About the worst I can say about him is that he wasn’t as affectionate and social as I would have liked when he was a puppy. He wasn’t the kind of puppy who wanted to sit in your lap all the time, or would go nutso when you came home from work. Once he reached full adulthood, though, he greets us at the door when we come home with a big shiba smile, and he’s plenty affectionate.
Let me give you my best advice if you want a large dog that’s very laid back and content to be crated or locked in a room during the work day…
Greyhound.
I am a greyhound rescue volunteer and have had three of them myself over the last ten years. They are laid back, crate-trained dogs who generally come to you between 2 and 5 years of age.
Even the younger one’s aren’t too energetic. They might want to run a few minutes every few days but after that you’ll find them on your bed or sofa or any soft spot on the rug. the overarching goal of the breed appears to be getting more sleep than a sloth. And moving about as much.
Of the three dogs I’ve adopted over the years they’ve all been house-broken in less than a day. They live in large kennels at the track and know where is a ‘good’ and ‘bad’ place to do their business. They just need to clear indication of where to go and they’re down with it.
I’ll be glad to answer any questions you might have about greyhounds, their temperment, how to get one, whatever you want. Over 50,000 are killed each year as their usefullness expires on the racing circuit so I like to help place them when I can.
Princess (who is my dog, as well) is golden, too. Her dad was a black lab, her mom was golden/fawn. Picture of Princess. I’ve seen a lot of chow mixes at shelters/PetSmart adoptions/etc. It’s all I can do to stop myself from adopting another Princess-doggie.
I second/third/etc. adopting a greyhound. They are wonderful animals, if not a little high-strung. You can get them fairly young (we adopted ours when she was four.) Some of them do have separation anxiety, but ours never seemed to have much of problem. She wasn’t a perfect dog, but we loved her.
This site has a quiz where you can find out what kind of dog is best for you. You have a lot of choices to make, including size and the level of independence you want. It might give you some more options to consider. I tested high for an Italian Spinone, and had never heard of the breed.
" and “We’d like the dog to grow up around us”. I do plan on visiting the local shelters before getting a dog to see what the situation is like though so there’s still hope I’ll see the light.