Looking for input on Super Automatic Espresso Machines

Cafe Society
1

I am considering getting a fancy new coffee maker that has loads of bells and whistles and I would love to get some input.

Super Automatic Espresso Machines will grind the beans, fresh, and brew the coffee (or espresso) within a couple of minutes. Examples include the Jura E8 and the DeLonghi Eletta Explore.

There is a Jura E6, and it makes coffee and espresso - that’s it. Other models can steam/ foam milk on the side and a couple can make latte or cappuccino directly. The newest shiny seems to be the ability to cold brew.

Any thoughts, ideas or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

2

I don’t have any reccos, but just wanted to say that you should be mentally prepared to do a lot of work with these sort of machines.

We used to have a SAECO but exchanged it for a Nespresso capsule machine when we got tired of having to do some sort of additional action before what seemed like every freakin cup. Adding beans, adding water, removing used grounds, clearing blockages, descaling, routine cleaning etc.

My wife and I used to make wagers on which maintenance message would pop up each time we started the machine. Kind of like a sad slot machine….

ETA: FWIW our capsule machine is a De’Longhi and it has served us well for 10+ years

3

A million years ago, I did a long stint in the ecommerce division of Sur La Table.

It’s been a great while since I left, but we had a general rule of thumb inside the company: the more things a machine does, the more things that can break.

We pushed the top-end Jura type machines hard with customers, and we sold a fair number, but we didn’t buy them for ourselves.

4

It sounds like you already have a coffee maker. My guess is that it’s easy to use and keep clean. As noted earlier, high-end, “fancy” coffee machines require significantly more effort to use and maintain compared to your typical coffee maker.

If you plan to use this machine occasionally and have an extra few hundred dollars to spend, I would say go for it. However, if you plan to use it frequently and don’t particularly like the idea of constant maintenance, you might want to think twice before purchasing one. Just my two cents.

5

I do not have a coffee maker, per se. I have a grinder, a scale, a pour-over kettle and a French press. I can make good coffee with this set-up however, grinding the coffee and cleaning the French press is rather difficult while my hand is still healing.

FTR, I have considered a Nespresso machine but I really hate all the waste.

ETA: I had been using Folgers singles for the first part of my recovery. Since June the price of the Folgers has about doubled and it is no longer available via Amazon and it is not regularly available in Canada.

6

How easy is it to keep clean? Can the parts go in the dishwasher?

If you have hard water, do you need to descale the machine? How difficult is it to do? We killed our original machine as we had no idea that the water here means that coffee machines have to be descaled.

If the machine needs to be repaired, is the repair place nearby? We bought our current machine locally. And then the shop closed.

I would go for a machine that just does coffee and espresso, just to reduce the complexity. Also because the machine will take up less space on the counter. But that’s me. You could get a separate induction milk frother if you don’t want to steam the milk itself.

I’m hoping our espresso machine (13 years old) lasts a long time - the newer generation has a LED panel.

From your links, I would get the DeLonghi Eletta as it specifically mentions that the parts are dishwasher friendly and it looks like fun, even if it may be overly complicated. But that’s just based on the links.

7

I understand the draw of a new shiny gadget, but agree with the advice given by others. Our kitchen used to have an automatic coffeemaker and it was a drag like the others said: lots of work cleaning, and it broke down repeatedly leading to high repair costs. I threw it out when remodeling the kitchen.

For your needs you could probably simply replace the functionality with specific (and relatively cheap) dedicated tools.

For grinding you can buy an electric grinder.

To replace the French press you could look for a simple but sturdy espresso machine (warning: good machines are not very cheap, and cheap machines are not very good). I have the simplest Quickmill which is built like a tank (have it 25 years with only a bit of maintenance), and doesn’t need much cleaning during normal operation, merely throwing out the grind and giving the coffee holder a quick wipe.

For cappucino you can use a steamer with an espresso machine (assuming it does have one) but it is admittedly more work and requires additional cleaning There are, however, also cheap and simple milk foamers.

You may still like a somewhat more advanced machine, and that is fine as long as you are aware of the possible drawbacks. I’d be wary of LED displays, as these are more prone to breaking which might make your machine not operational.

8

Sounds like your real issue is the cost and availability of Folgers singles, which is singularly a problem caused by Trump’s tariff bullying, combined with the drastic tide in coffee prices for every type of bean. If you need an easy way to make coffee until your hand fully recovers, look for Starbucks VIA packets. Comes in several roast blonde to French roasts. Comes in little single serve packets,all you need to do is heat the 8 oz water, kettle or microwave. I’ve used both Folgers singles and Starbucks Via for travel and the Via tastes better. Whether the Starbucks VIA is reasonably available to you where you live? That I don’t know.

Just switching temporarily from a French press to a Melitta or Chemex type pour over with a paper filter would get you away from struggling to clean the French press. Those pour over holders can be found that go in the dishwasher.

I’d also temporarily switch to an already ground coffee until your hand recovers. Buy a good pre-ground, store it well and save yourself several steps for the time being.

Those do-it-all expensive machines are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire for your purposes. They break constantly, they require all kinds of pre-prep fussing and fiddling and cleaning them is a horror show. I’ve watching my son-in-law buy and abandon two of them in the past 6 years. It’s like someone buying a Maserati to shuttle their kids to school. He now uses a Keurig with locally roasted beans, using a reusable pod filled with his choice of grounds (the pods go in the dishwasher, the used grounds go in his compost, much less waste). When he is out on the weekends he buys himself a barista expresso or latte to get his fix.

I’ve never had a friend or family member stick with one of those machines.

9

To offer a more optimistic take… I’ve had a Jura A1 for nearly a decade, and I love, love, love the heck out of that thing. All it does is espresso (no milk dispenser or frother), but it does that very reliably and quickly. In general it’s been an extremely positive and impressive experience for us, in a way that most technology today isn’t. This thing is an engineering marvel that has made 5-10 shots a day, every day, for the last decade, each one as consistent as the last.

Our derpy little coffee robot (what should we call him?):

The pros:

  • The “super-automatic” is a total game changer, either from drip coffee makers or manual espresso making. You load the beans in the hopper (good for several days), make sure the water tank has water, and then push a button. 20-30 seconds later, you have a shot. Push it again and you get another shot.
  • It comes with three customizable S/M/L size buttons that adjust the amount of water (not beans) in a shot. In effect this means you get more diluted coffee with a larger shot, but it’s also halfway to an Americano. I use three medium shots to make an iced oatmilk latte, and my partner uses one large and one small to make something akin to an Americano with a bit of creamer.
  • Daily cleaning is simple: You pull out the grounds bucket, dump it into the trash or compost, give it a light rinse (no soap or thorough wash needed) and then put it back in. Beyond that, as long as you have enough water in the tank and beans in the hopper, you’re good. It’ll warn you if anything is out.
  • The thing is ridiculously reliable and has never given me issues, despite all the moving parts. I don’t think I’ve had any other mechanical device in my life, except maybe my car, last this long.

Cons:

  • Apparently the coffee it produces is “great” if you’re not a coffee snob, but sub-par if you are. I’ve had it for a long time and have kept it in various workplaces; all my coworkers loved it and would line up to use it. For many years, it was pulling triple or quadruple duty for half the office… people would line up to use it instead of getting the free office drip. (We’d pool money for nicer beans too).

    However, I once tried to do a blind taste test with a coffee snob friend. We couldn’t even get to the actual tasting part because even with the same batch of beans, the Jura’s output had substantially less oils and aroma than the manual one he pulled, and it was both visually and aromatically substantially inferior (still tasted fine to me, though). We weren’t able to “blind” ourselves to the dramatic difference. But, keep in mind that it took me 2 seconds to prep the Jura and push the button, and it took him like 3-4 minutes of careful pouring, measuring, acupuncture, brushing, tamping, etc. No way I could do that in the morning.

  • There were a few times when I was tired in the morning and accidentally put the tray back into the machine without the grounds basket.. This… resulted in quite the mess, with grounds piling up all under and around the machine. I wiped it off as best as I could, thinking it was no big deal. Well, that happened a few more times, and eventually the grounds started clumping together and getting moldy inside the machine in a place that I could not easily access.

    I shipped it back to their US service center, and for $200 (out of the original purchase price of about $1000), they took it all apart and deep-cleaned it. It came back brand spanking new (but the googly eyes were still there!), and I’ve been more careful about it ever since and haven’t had any further issues. So just don’t forget the basket.

Maintenance & cleaning:

  • Not really a pro or con. Daily maintenance is just dumping the grounds and putting the basket back in, then adding water and whole beans to the hopper.
  • Once every 3 months or so, it will ask you to run a cleaning cycle. You put in a Jura cleaning tablet ($2-$3 each) or a cheaper knock-off (cheaper but less cleaning ability) and hit clean. It does its thing, makes whirring sounds, and you empty the dirty water halfway through. It finishes the rest of the cycle and that’s that.
  • Once every 6 months or so, it will also ask you to run a de-scaling routine. Similar process with different tablets. It wants you to dissolve the tablets in water first beforehand, but otherwise it’s largely similar to the cleaning.
  • It comes with a water filter in the tank, and suggests that you always use one if you have hard water. I stopped using them after the free included filter and never bothered again. It’s been fine.

All in all, this thing was a 11/10 purchase for me. One of the very, very few pieces of technology that I absolutely adore and would happily gush about all day, every day, to anybody who would listen.

I honestly didn’t expect to like it at all… I bought a refurbished unit, just to see what a superautomatic was all about. It completely changed my life and paid for itself many times over in just a few weeks (replacing Starbucks and Dunkin completely). My coworkers were all similarly impressed and loved to use it (though none, as far as I know, ended up buying their own at home). On the other hand, my coffee snob friend was not impressed. So I guess if you really care about quality, it’s not good enough, but otherwise… dooooo it!

Oh, and I wouldn’t want any of the models with milk dispensing or frothing. It’s one thing to have some slightly old coffee dust and oils around the machine. That’s whatever. I definitely would not want to have to deep-clean the machine to get rid of milk residue and all that bacterial buildup, yuck! Some models just have a steaming wand, like a traditional espresso machine, and that’s probably fine.

If this thing ever dies, I’m going to upgrade to a model that can do cold brews and pour two shots at once, but otherwise this thing is perfect as it is. They don’t sell the A1 anymore, but they still have similar models at the low end. I agree with the other posters that less is more in this case; I would still get a super-automatic, but not the super fancy ones, just something that can pour basic shots and maybe steam (only if you care about lattes). Otherwise, have the machine pour the shots and you add the milk separately into the cup. Easier and much cleaner all around that way.

10

I have now put in so much thought to this, it’s getting weird.

I know that I don’t want instant coffee. The Folgers singles was as low as I was willing to go. I’d prefer better quality than Folgers or instant.

I understand the more automated the system, the less overall control I would have. Consistency over time is the goal. Something like @Reply has achieved with his older Jura. Newer models the E4 and E6 just do coffee, no milk and they were recommended to me by a FOAF.

Units that do milk drinks, from what I have learned, have been around for a few years, and can work fine and be consistent with routine maintenance.

I am now intrigued about semi-automatic machines, like the Breville Barista line. It allows for more hands on control and are more than just pushing a button. The situation does seem to boil down to the fact that you can get decent espresso from the super automatics but you can perfect espresso if you take it up as a hobby with more specialized gear.

I just need to go to some stores and tryout the machines myself.

11

I never could quite perfect it even after investing in a Rancilio Silvia espresso machine with a precise temperature module installed after manufacture, and Rancilio Rocky grinder. I was lucky to get 1 godshot out of every 5 or 6 attempts, though my standard product was 10 x better than any espresso Starbucks makes these days.

These days I just make my own cold brew at home and am content.

12

I think that’s a good summary. The superautomatic can make maybe 80% quality coffee, 100% of the time. A human operating a semiauto or manual setup can go way above or below that.

My coffee snob friend? Best espresso I ever had, but even he fucks up on occasion and has to re-pull a shot once in a while. Me at 6am, barely awake and soon late for work? No way I could beat the Jura consistently. Or really, ever.

Just depends on how much practice and patience you’re willing to put into your coffee routine. For me that number was pretty much zero.

13

I have a Breville. It took a few cycles to dial in the size of the grind and amount to dispense - just a little trial and error. Since then, as long as I have enough water in the tank, it makes an excellent cup of espresso. It has a wand on the side, and I use that to froth the milk. I still haven’t learned to make a little heart or flower when I pour it, but I have at least one friend who says my cappuccino is better than Starbucks, consistently. It’s not very much work once you get the hang of it.

14

Also a Breville owner. I’ve previously had two Super Automatics over the last 25 odd years, when the last one died late 2020 I replaced it with a Breville Barista Pro so that I had more control. Steaming milk in a separate jug doesn’t take any longer than the super automatic took and I just wipe off the wand with a cloth and throw the jug in the dishwasher which is faster than cleaning the special milk dispenser.

15

I have had two Breville semi-automatic machines, and they have been great.

There are engineering compromises for the fully automatic machines for convenience sake. For me, I like the ritual of grinding beans, tamping down the grounds, ratcheting in the portafilter to the machine, etc. Not sure which method would come out on top of a blind taste test, but it’s a heckuvalot cheaper, and for me the process is part of the appeal (to not go full automatic)

16

One other drawback to a super automatic espresso machine is the inability (as far as I know) to change between different beans. At the moment I can’t do caffeine in the afternoon, so we bought some pre-ground decaf espresso for my afternoon latte, and hubby makes his with the beans he uses at breakfast.

It’s also a problem with a separate grinder, which is why the decaf is pre-ground.

17

I know that there is at least one super automatic that uses removable hoppers to feed beans into the grinder. The issue is that you either need to make one last drink or just dump the last remaining ground coffee before using the new beans. It’s not ideal but it is something.

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19

I’ve got a coffee siphon, my uncle bought it for us. It’s fun, but rarely comes out because it’s a pain in the ass to setup and clean.

20

(In response to the “why are coffee people so pretentious” video)

That’s a good way to look at it (that fancy coffee is a hobby, not merely a means to an end).

I think the superautomatics take the exact opposite approach: They’re perfect for when you just need that “good enough” cup in the morning, as soon as possible and with minimum fuss.