Looting cultural artifacts: what could I have done?

This is kind of an unusual moral dilemma. It has been bothering me for months now.

Last December, I met a really nice, interesting guy while traveling to Siem Reap, Cambodia (where the Angkor ruins are) from the Thai border. We became pretty good travel buddies after a while. When we were shopping in the Old Market, he mentioned that he collects old Buddha statues. He invited me to go along with him as he haggled over these artifacts.

These vendors sell a lot of junk, but some have a secret stash of genuine artifacts under the counter. It was fascinating, watching them argue the merits of each statue, observing how new objects are “antiqued” to fool prospective buyers, and learning how to tell real objects from fake.

I’ve always hated this kind of looting, but at the time, I figured the locals really need this money to survive, and these objects would end up with people who will take care of them. I also got caught up in a stupid Indiana Jones-like feeling of adventuresomeness. But now I think it’s plain wrong for foreigners to take these treasures out of the country, no matter how much their money is needed. Foreigners’ money could be going toward developing legitimate industries, rather than smuggling.

I probably couldn’t have done anything about it at the time, nor now. Or is there?
Or am I blowing this out of proportion?

Unfortunately, there probably isn’t anything you can do. Or could have done. Raising a stink at the market certainly wouldn’t have made you any friends, and might have even gotten you killed (money is a very serious business over there). The local police probably would not have gotten involved, or would have just given you lip service.

There are different watch groups, which you can find and contact over the Net I’m sure, but I don’t know how effective they would or could be.

A letter to your own customs authorities, detailing exactly what happened, couldn’t hurt. In most Western countries, looted antiques will be confiscated at customs if they’re discovered. Letting them know to be watchin out for these items will help them do this.

If the Cambodians don’t care about the looting, why would you? Antiques will be oversold if they come from communially owned sources. Such an outcome will be sub-optimal, but that doesn’t mean that it is actually worse for the Cambodian people. I recall one WTO delegate from Bangledesh remarking on a protester dressed up as a turtle, “We love sea turtles, too; but we love our children more.”

Scholarly pursuits. When grave robbers or looters go into a place to search for booty that is all they do. They will dig a big trench and just take “the good stuff” of what ever comes out of the ground.

Archaeologists always like finding “the good stuff” as well (hell, they are human too), but they can also learn about a site from the crap that looters don’t want. The only problem is that once something has been dug up and re-discarded it is usless to archaeologists because it is out of its original provenience and it loses its context.

Personally, I think that artifacts belong to the people in the area where they are found and they should be able to benefit from them over time and not just in the short term as they would with selling them. A site like Ankor Wat attracts tourists, if there were a museum with artifacts from the site, they could charge admission and that would add up to some serious money over time.

When archaeological sites are looted everybody loses in the end.

Well, you could have declaimed, in stentorian tones:

“That belongs in a museum!”

Sorry. Been watching the Indiana Jones box set my wife got me for my birthday. No disrespect meant.

What adam yax said. :slight_smile:

Like I said in my OP, I thought that the Cambodians have a very immediate need for cash, so I would have felt silly protesting it at the time.

I do think it is worse for the Cambodian people in the long run, however. It’s like clear cutting forests for timber: you get short term profit, but lose money in the long term. Many people will come to the Angkor ruins and go to the museums in the future if these things are well-preserved. But how many people will come if all the statues in Angkor have their heads cut off?

And channelling their efforts into illegitimate pursuits like looting these ruins and other more obviously harmful sources of profit (child prostitution, for example) does not help them develop a stable economy.

Plus, it’s sickening, in retrospect, to see tourists take advantage of the exchange rate to buy these treasures on the cheap.

Funny, that scene in The Last Crusade, when Indy is being held and beaten in the rain, yet still cries out, “It belongs in a museum!” recurred to me, too.

Prove it.

You are blowing it out of proportion.

If the culture values its relics so little that they are for sale in a bazaar, then there is nothing you can do.

If you are referring to what I said about clear-cutting forests, I’ll just apologize for using an example which may not be appropriate for this topic. I also don’t want the thread to go off on a tangent about clear-cutting.

If you are asking me to prove what I said about looting being detrimental for long term profits, I have to admit that I am not an economist; it just seems like common sense. The looters are hacking off the heads of statues in the ruins, as well as looting from archaeological digs. My point is, if the ruins remain intact and unspoiled by looting, and if there are more artifacts for the museums, then there will be more money made in the long run from tourists. There is a limited supply of artifacts: once they are all gone, then that’s it. However, if the ruins remain intact and relics remain in the country, more money can be made in the long run from admission fees to the ruins and museums, as well as from hotels, restaurants, guide services, etc., for the tourists.

They aren’t on sale in a bazaar. Or at least not openly. The sellers of these real items keep them hidden and show them only to actual antiques collectors. The guy I was with had been coming for years. The sellers would never have shown me anything, had I been alone.

Further, there are many Cambodians who oppose the looting of their ruins. My guide and his family, for example. Angkor is, to them, the symbol of their Khmer culture.

I wasn’t asking whether I am blowing the problem of looting out of proportion; I was asking about my sense of guilt in watching the process and not doing anything about something I feel is wrong.

It’s a hard situation to be in, I’m sure. But as liirogue said, there really wasn’t anything you could do at the time.

Looting cannot be stopped as long as there’s a market for the atifacts. There are too many unexplored, unguarded sites scattered all over the world, and looters become remarkably adept at finding them-- often they can read the signs of a site as well as any archaeologist.

Smuggling them out of the country is sadly easy, especially since customs officials (assuming they actually come across an item) are not trained in telling “tourist junk” from the real thing. Hell, even experts can be fooled.

I don’t think there’s anything that can be done to stop it.

Common sense is as useless as the Golden Rule. As I mentioned before, given that the antiques are coming from communially owned sources, the so-called looting will be at levels above what is optimal. But that doesn’t imply that selling antiques isn’t a good thing for Cambodia, or the world in general. As far as scientific knowledge goes, these trinkets aren’t going to give us a better polio vaccine, a more efficient engine, nor a better method for efficient resource use.

These antiques are a resource. Resources by definition are things that are to be exploited. While it is sad to see them go to private collectors, and thereby be lost to most of the world, putting them in museums doesn’t really make them available to the world either. It may be worth selling a few now for the income they provide. Let’s think about trinket X. X will bring some sum of cash today. At some unknown point in the future, it will bring in less than 1/n[sup]th[/sup] of the revenue of a museum with n items, since revenue will most likely be concave w/ respect to the number of items. What you are saying is that the present value of that income stream is larger than the amount of money some collector is willing to pay today. (That’s the crude way to put it. Many complications need to be added; but essentially the idea should be spot on.) That such is the case is neither common sense nor obvious.

If we consider X to be the representative item, the total value of that future income stream for all Xs will rise with the number of Xs out there. But the value of each X will get smaller and smaller as the number of Xs increases. Conversely, as the number of Xs available for public consumption decreases, the value of each X will rise. When the value of the representative X is equal to the value being paid today (doing all the appropriate discounting), the maximum number of “lootable” items will have been reached. As I mentioned, if these things are coming from publically owned sources, then the take will be above optimum. Same for ivory and redwoods, just as it is the same for any cattle herder, diamond mine owner, or baseball card trader.

What you (and everybody else) need to understand, and truly internalize is this:

To have value means that someone is willing to sacrifice for it. That sacrifice can be measured in terms of a numeraire commodity. That is, if saving the tigers is worth as much as a Big Mac a week, then we can use a third commodity that is a common measuring unit between all other commodities. That commodity is money. If I’m willing to give up a Big Mac a week to save the tigers, then we can fairly say that tigers are worth $150 per year to me. (However much Big Macs cost.)

A second important implication is that if the state or society forces a commodity to be priceless, then people who would otherwise value it no longer do. Elephants are a good example. It used to be that elephants were priceless. The locals had to compete with them for farming and grazing land, their relatives and mates were killed or injured when problem elephants came to town, and their livelihoods could be wiped out by a grazing herd. They had no use for elephants; however, they did have a use for poachers. In Zimbabwe, a program called CAMPFIRE was instituted. It applied to all (huntable) wildlife in the following manner. The community or communities that had “claim” to the area within a herd’s home range were granted “ownership” of the animals. They were then allowed to sell hunting rights. Through simple (and rather ingenous, IMO) demonstrations using the locals themselves, they were able to demonstrate the idea of a sustainable cull, and help them understand what cull rates an elephant (or gazelle, etc.) herd could sustain. Wealthy hunters would buy these hunting rights—IIRC, and elephant would bring in $10,000-$15,000. Now the locals had a stake even though :gasp: elephants were no longer sacred. Poaching dropped dramatically, problem kills dropped to almost nothing, the locals had a source of income based on their resource base (instead of the largesse of the state or aid agencies) that was significantly larger than it had previously been, and in the areas where CAMPFIRE was instituted the herds grew in size.

Obviously, Cambodian antiques aren’t a renewable resource like elephants, trees, or cattle. But that doesn’t mean that much. If it did, you would be talking about the looting of oil by OPEC when the long-term value of oil for plastics is worth more than its present value as fuel.

What I think is happening is that you have made these trinkets sacred in your mind, and that your arguments are ex post constructions to bolster that belief. The sacredness of these antiques virtually guarantees their near extinction for Cambodia’s benefit. I’m not a free-marketeer and I am not going to suggest that all archaeological (sp?!) digs should be in private ownership. I’m dumb, not crazy. But you do have to disabuse yourself of the sacredness of these antiques. Honestly, “looting” is hardly a fitting word here.

Surely these antiques are being overharvested. That is a shame. From that fact it doesn’t necessarily follow that Cambodians are suffering a net loss from the harvesting. They are poor today, and your indignance should be directed so as to maximize their benefit from the existence of these antiques instead of being directed to keeping this resource sacred. The latter will only make the world worse off.

Well, no, they won’t lead to practical technological advances, but they will lead to a better understanding of the history of that culture, if they are available for study.

Exploited wisely, I’d say.

I think any calculation of the PV of the future income stream of the artifacts needs to take into consideration far more factors than just future income from a museum vs the lump sum received from a collector.

For example, let’s say people are trying to decide where to spend their vacation. They want to go to SE Asia. They hear about the destruction of statues in the Angkor complex, and they hear of looting of archaeological sites. This looting causes the perception that

-the Cambodians are unable to protect a World Heritage site, and so must be a dangerous place, so it’s best to go elsewhere; or
-Angkor has been compromised as an interesting historical site, so it’s best to visit ruins elsewhere.

This results in lost income from hotels, tour guides, restaurants, souvenir sellers, etc. The tourist who visits a museum to look at artifacts or to the ruins themselves spends a lot more money than just the price of admission. OTOH, a good reputation for Angkor leads to steady tourist revenue. And revenue from scholars, photographers, journalists, producers of a PBS special, etc., coming to Cambodia to study the ruins.

No, I am not merely trying to bolster my belief that these artifacts are sacred. I do believe they have value in terms of historical understanding, which is very difficult to quantify, I realize, but I disagree that a lack of a price tag makes such knowledge “worthless.” People are willing to buy books on the subject, or pay tuition to study SE Asian history at university, or travel to Cambodia to increase their knowledge, aren’t they?

My argument is that un-vandalized ruins and museums filled with interesting artifacts will result in far more money from the tourist trade than selling off these resources piecemeal to collectors, thus maximizing the Cambodians’ benefit from the existence of these resources.

No, that’s your thesis. One which, absent the Tragedy of the Commons reference I alluded to, you’re really not giving me any reason to feel confident in.

For my edification, please explain to me why your position is so far out of the reach of the Cambodian authorities. Do they not share pride in their cultural heritage? What is it exactly?

While I can’t argue whether or not this exact situation is being blown out of proportion or provide info on what can be done, I was more than a little struck by your last statement, wonderwench. I don’t think the fact that a nation has a black market in its cultural objects means that the general population or even a majority of the populace approve of the situation. I understand that the OP stated that there were several such outfits and others have implied that the authorities wouldn’t have stepped in, but I don’t think this ends up implicating everyone in Cambodia or, as I said earlier, a majority of Cambodians.

I don’t understand your point. What is wrong with what I said, specifically?

It is safe to say that the Cambodian government is not indifferent to the theft and vandalism that occurs in the Angkor complex and other temple areas. Things the government has done, off the top of my head: with international aid, a mobile police unit was created to patrol the ruins. Cambodia has also become a signatory of a UNESCO convention prohibiting illicit trade in these items.

The prevention of theft is complicated by:
the size of the Angkor complex
the remoteness of some of the locations
the continuing effects of civil unrest
possibly, people turning a blind eye to it

Most of the looting has occurred within the past 20 years during the various wars, according to my guide. It isn’t lack of cultural pride, but the general chaos and lack of funds that followed the wars.

Couple of things, one the price of a buddha head is probably several months salary if not several years salary to your average Khmer. Especially when your average Khmer standard of living is real low. It’s not the Khmers don’t want to try protect their cultural heritage, it’s just pretty dang hard when the economics are stacked that far against you.

Second, based on the experience of China, which essentially destroyed the majority of it’s artifacts, there is a huge economic long term cost in terms of tourism if a country does not protect it’s cultural heritage (tourist sites). It’s not economic game theory, sub optimal usage of resources, etc. It’s a real loss as it is pretty hard to re-create one of the “seven wonders of the world”, especially in a poor country half way around the world. I mean Disney and some tropical man made beaches in Hawaii managed to pull it off, but destroying a long term cash cow tourist site so a few grave robbing individuals can get rich is probably not economic efficiency. YMMV

Here is an excellent bulletin from the Society for American Archaeology on looting.

So do your part. Work within the system. Don’t participate in artifact purchases yourself, or at least do some research in advance so you know you’re dealing with somebody reputable who isn’t chiseling a chunk out of an irreplaceable frieze just because smaller pieces are easier to sell. If you do buy, buy only intact pieces; encourage the good behavior while discouraging the bad. And then after you have a piece, the first thing you should do is take it to your local universities antiquities experts and have them take a look at it to see whether it’s something best lent to the academics for a while. Y’know those little cards in the museums, “from the collection of so-and-so”? Same deal.

You can do absolutely nothing about the bad behavior of other people. All you can do is make sure your own influence is a net positive, and hope your example serves as a good benchmark for others.