You and I came to the same conclusion: “Chronos shouldn’t divulge any information”. I think that the line of reasoning you gave to support that conclusion doesn’t make sense. I don’t think your logic supports the conclusion that you gave.
There are several possible reasons for this:
[ul]
[li]You used faulty logic, but nonetheless reached the same conclusion as I did[/li][li]You used good logic, but it was unclear to me (either because I misunderstood you or because you misspoke)[/li][li]You don’t actually believe the statement you made, but wish us to think you do, and made a mistake in ‘inventing’ an explanation[/li][/ul]
So I “agree with you” in the sense that we both came to the same stated conclusion. I’m just not sure if you mean what you said, or if you have an ulterior motive. In either case, at the moment I don’t trust you.
As for Chronos, I don’t think he’s scum. Not because “Scum wouldn’t do that”, but because “Scum wouldn’t be that careless to make such a big mistake” (a rather fine distinction, I admit). I think that most likely Chronos is exactly what he says he is, and he just goofed. I think the second most likely explanation is that he is a third party. But in any case, at the moment, I don’t trust him.
That was part of the point I was trying to make. The player in question wouldn’t know anything about Chronos. He might be telling the truth and he might be making it up. There’s no way to tell anything given the single piece of information. And that’s why I don’t think it should be given. It would just generate ‘noise’, which would at best be distracting, and at worst be exactly what the ‘bad guys’ (scum and/or 3rd parties) want.
My original reason for voting Suburban Plankton was non-participation, and he looks to be participating at a reasonable level now. I’m still uneasy about his “there’s nothing to talk about” post, but I don’t think that’s enough to hang a vote on any more.
Unvote Suburban Plankton
I’m too tired to go hunting for other potential votes right now, so I’ll just leave it at that until tomorrow.
wow, a lot of talk going on even for a saturday. I’m still playing catchup, but to be honest I’m feeling that too much of the talk is surrounding a couple of players. And while one or all of them may be scum. I’m getting bored of mechanical talk, but I’ve been distracted all day and haven’t been able to turn intuition into anything meaningful yet.
[oog]PS Go see “Scott Pilgrim V the World” it’s fun as hell if you like Edgar Wright movies, comic movies, or video games. [/oog]
Red, I hear ya. I’ve been away all day, trying to catch up. Even tho it’s just one page of posts since my last visit, there’s still plenty of discussion and a lot of opinions to digest.
I think if we wait until Dawn and read what Mahaloth posts, we may have a clearer understanding of this game, how it relates to LoTR canon. But if, say, he rolls out with “…The Fellowship was attacked last night on Weathertop…” I think it’s safe to say he’s not following the canon.
This is just my second game with Mahaloth modding; he set up Weird West interestingly, but not gastardly, IMO. I’m not a fan of gastard games but I won’t quit if this turns out to be a gastard.
I was the Investigator, and I had claimed prior to outing you. I’d correctly outed storyteller as scum the previous night and got the same results from your investigation. I had every reason to think you were scum and based on my success I got enough players to back me in lynching you. When you flipped Town, as a Miller, I felt foolish but chalked it up to not understanding all possible outcomes (like having a Miller in the game, let alone an unknown one).
I disagree. I used to think that a Miller claim, early in the game, was wrong because it shrunk the pool of VTs for a town power to hide in. I think it’s best for all that a Miller (if known) should claim right off the bat. Reasons being:
[ul]they will only muddy the water for Investigators
[*]if scum tried to claim as Miller they are basically giving up, because town would and should lynch them at the next opportunity. (Unless a bigger fish reveals itself.)[/ul]
I am having trouble understanding how hashes work. And your reply doesn’t make it easier. At the risk of appearing a complete idiot can you breakdown what you said? Unless it’s a moot point, and we are foregoing hashes as a way of handshaking.
I don’t mean to condescend, I think that your approach has merit and can work, under optimum circumstances. (At least, better than a mass claim.) It’s just that this is the first I’ve heard of it and I’d really like to understand it. An link to a wiki would be fine.
Am I wrong to ask how mechanics of the game are being addressed? This is the first time I’ve played in a game where this kind of discussion was going on, and I want to learn as much as I can. Each game I play gives me more insight into how to be a better participant.
If you’re calling me out for being late to the party, I can understand that. But just so you know, I don’t have a lot of time to spend on a computer. I log on in the evenings because I don’t have access at work, and I like to read the latest posts before making an opinion. The fact that Day 1 is usually a lot of meta-gaming, and talk about game mechanics is one of the best parts of mafia.
But just what kind of participation are you asking?
So now you want some players to shut up and others to speak up… I’m confused.
I’m not convinced this is the way to proceed, tallying post counts to determine the validity of each participant. As it stands now, peeker has five times your number of posts; does that make him a better player, or better participant? Or worse, less scummy that the rest of us?
@Cucuy: It’s not about being more posts making you a better player. It’s just that lurking IS a strong scum strategy, so as town we can’t allow anyone to lurk.
Your reaction is, to be honest, suspicious. It sounds like newbietalk. If you were a new player, I could write off your defensiveness as just not catching on to the game yet. A newbie might conflate being a “better player” with being pro-town, but you’re not new, you should know better.
Day 1’s will always be filled with so-called distractions. Without them, we’d have very little to get the talking started with.
Um, we should of course consider all commentary in the light of it’s individual merit and in the light of the game as a whole. Ed’s handshake would carry a lot more weight if the mod had come in and posted the role pm. Since the mod had not done so, it means that the handshake attempt was fruitless for it’s direct purpose. The indirect effects however are sure to be felt.
I am unclear about how you can make comments “in retrospect” regarding special ed’s handshake attempt. In Random Mafia, Peeker was town who was lynched for being cryptic with his name claim. In Lord of the Rings mafia, ed is what? and he hasn’t been lynched? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there.
first, i doubt seriously that this is gastard. with the mods we have, to be playing that game and not letting us know would be gastard x 2. so i don’t see that as a possibility. but changing canon in such a way that what appears to be in the book is different in this game is not gastard. sure making sauron the bestest of all good townies would be “gastard” but tweaking alignments certainly does not fit into that category.
second i thought the fellowship was attacked on weathertop. how is than not following canon?
i see some similarity but with opposite intentions. when i you tubed we were doing the name claim thing. i did something that i thought was “cute” at the time and apparantly just pissed everyone off.
ed was trying to perform something that would confirm vanillas. now, in theory this is good. but that also presumes that scum have not been given that information.
and with maha, story and sach (some of the stronger players and more well thought out mods - never hurts to suck up) i think it was pretty far fetched that that crew hadn’t figured out a way to make that ploy unsucessful.
plus, i think ed even mentioned that when the handshakes he has attempted have occurred it’s about 50/50. about what a typical game result would be. now he further mentions that this is better than his overall run rate. but, i don’t see how that helps me.
the best thing about what ed did was get people talking. and for that he gets a kewpie doll. this board has been the death of mafia games recently. so to get some life into the thread is a bonus. that doesn’t make him town, and he still yanks my chain to no end, but he gets a pass toDay from me, for sure.
so yeh, now that you make me type it out they probably were similar. i knew my youtube post was going to ruffle feathers and create discussion. and i am probably talking totally out my ass but i can envision a scenario where ed does the handhsake thing just to stir the fucking pot and create discussion.
neta: and i want to add this or at least ask a question. in the games that ed has attempted the handshake thing town really fares no better than if just random. but i think he was town in all of those instances. now, i don’t remember if scum were provided cover/vanilla/whatever roles in those games.
so that means that ed is most likely town or that scum have been provided information that would make a handshake meaningless and potentially damaging to town. which to be totally frank is something that ed as scum would realize and implement.
With the way games have been going around here lately, Town winning half of the games where handshakes were used doesn’t actually sound all that bad.
cucuy, you asked about how hashes work. Basically, you take a plaintext message of any length in, and the hash function turns it into a random-looking string of fixed length. The same input will always give the same output, but given only the output, it’s extremely difficult (certainly, beyond the resources of anyone in a game like this) to find an input that gives that output. So if someone posts a hash, and then later posts a message that produces that hash, it essentially guarantees that that’s how they got the hash in the first place, thus guaranteeing that they had the message at that time. But someone who just had the hash would not be able to use it to determine what the message was until they were given it.
Can you go into a little more detail about why you think there is 24/7 scum board? The mods have given no indication of this and I’m not seeing anything in the hash discussion that indicates any kind of coordination. This smells of PIS.
The hobbits (with Aragorn) were attacked on Weathertop prior to arriving in Rivendell and forming the Fellowship.
Sure, but we’re all starting the game together. When you’re basing a game where everyone starts together on a story that had people joining up from all over the place, there’s bound to be some inconsistencies like that. And besides, we’re not all in the Fellowship, since there’s more than nine of us.
That’s fine, I wasn’t making any comments on this Game, I was answering peeker’s question about why the fellowship being attacked at Weathertop isn’t canon.
This is why I voted for him. I did not understand the value of a bunch of confirmed VTs and so couldn’t work out why he attempted to handshake based on more than just the wincon. If a scummy Ed had access to the VT PM, and, being scum already knew who was Town (or possibly 3rd party), by using a section of the vanilla PM he could pretend to be helping Town create a bunch of confirmed VTs but actually was exposing non-VT players for the scum to NK. Why else handshake with VT players only? I could only see a scum motivation. With Red’s and then Ed’s explanation, I could see that the action could have a pro-Town motivation and so backed off as the case was less clear-cut than I’d thought. He admitted the attempt had failed (#278, sorry, no links) over 150 posts after Mahaloth had posted (#121) since his initial handshake. Between these two posts he actively encouraged further handshaking despite knowing the risks involved. I’d strongly consider him Town if he’d discouraged further attempts when he posted in #124, #127, #128, #132, #134, etc. but as it is, I’m torn. Admittedly less than 20 hours passed between #121 and #278. Yeah, WIFOM.