** mod question: were all vts provided the same pm? and if so did you let a certain subset of participants know this fact?**
I can’t make heads or tails out of it, but that was a mad shell game with the votes just now, wasn’t ?
<snipped and bleached>
yes, there certainly is. i am trying to find scum.
and i don’t know whether that make it an ulterior motive or a superior motive.
While I think it would be a great idea to give me, and me only, multiple votes, I’m afraid that would go against my sense of fair play.
My vote currently stands on Pleonast.
I’m sorry, I don’t have any experience playing with Pleonast, so I don’t have the benefit of hindsight. I can only go off what I’m seeing here. And what I’m seeing is him making a claim, refusing to answer any questions about it, and then defecting several attempts to revisit the subject. My theory regarding his specific intent (implanting a subconscious idea) might be bull, but that doesn’t change the facts of what he did and did not say.
OK, I’ve just found the post where you address this subject with Astral. (Post 673if you’re playing along at home). So your argument is that Pleonast made whatever claim he made, and since he’s a stubborn old ox, we shouldn’t bother asking him for more information. If he doesn’t want to tell us anything, he doesn’t have to.
So apparently, it’s just “Pleonast being Pleonast”, and we’re all supposed to accept that, no questions asked?
Next time, I suggest bold or underline. Quotes always show up in italics anyway
If Scum were provided the Vanilla Role PM, then my ploy was doomed. My ploy depended upon Mahaloth stopping it.
The only reason we’re considering it failed is that he didn’t. Had I been Scum and been in possession of the Vanilla role PM, then I would have known that he wouldn’t stop it.
Now, if I were Scum and in possession of the Vanilla Role PM, is it possible that I would have started the doomed handshake attempt just for WiFoM? Sure, I will grant you that. So it’s not really a Town tell, but it’s certainly no Scum tell.
But to call it a perfect ploy? really? Did I end up confirmed Town to anyone? Did anyone else who might be a potential Scumbuddy end up confirmed?
Somewhere in there, I should have pointed out that peeper ignored a possibility of why I might know what the Vanilla role PM looks like. It would be because I am Vanilla.
And, if you look at what I posted as my Role PM, I’d say it really really looks like a standard format. I think if they were individualized, then it might have made some mention to some attribute of my character. You know, maybe that I have big hairy feet and love gardening…or that I love my wife Goldberry…or that I ride horses and dress up as a man…
but there was none of that.
So, it’s possible that other Vanilla role PMs look different. I just think it unlikely. Which, as a corollary leads me to believe that you, peeper, are not in possession of a Vanilla Role PM.
Unvote: Chronos
**Vote: peepercpa
**Though, it’s remarkable how the two of them are in a similar situation from my point of view (both non-Vanilla), I’m more accepting of Chronos play style up until now. Peeper has been playing like peeper on crack. And he’s well aware that his previous Scum Tell was how calmly and coherently he was posting. (See Ragnarok and NSFW on Giraffe for the evidence.) I think he may be over compensating.
and jeebus pleebus why is always me and ed?
but you are basically saying that it is a bunch of wifom at this point, right?
so how in the world does that equate to you being confirmed vt?
and with your knocking folks for uncontested vt claims in past games it seems mighty inconsistent.
that’s why i am voting you. your ploy was semi doomed from the get go, unless you had some nefarious reason to implement it.
Oops. I blame that on my boss. After I took 45 minutes finding and quoting all of those posts, he dragged me off into an hour long meeting, leaving me about 5 minutes to clean things up, copy the whole thing from notepad to my browser, and post before I had to head off to another meeting and then head home, so my proofreading was less thorough than it should have been.
Really, don’t these people realize I have other things to do?
@chronos: MHaye was scum in Random Mafia. (One of the reasons why he’s higher on my list of people who are plausibly scum.)
NETA: Because his slip is similar to the slip he made in Random.
<bleached>
this is so much crap. and i won’t give you the easy out of letting you know whether i have a vanilla pm or not. that’s for scum to worry about. and i certainly won’t make it easy for sahm (btw, i got the abbreviation thing) to figure out where to go hunting.
and i just love the logic that folks use. oh crud, peeker is being rational, therefore he is scum. oh shoot, noes he is all over the board, he is scum. jeebus, ed we seriously need to get a beer and chill. just after your scum ass is lynched this game.
I’m saying from a not-Ed point of view, it could look like a Scum trying to WiFoM the Town, yes
I’m not a confirmed Town. Did I imply I was? I’m stated that I’m Town, I tried a gambit to get myself and others confirmed. It failed. Ergo, Ed=not confirmed
I may have insulted people for making a mistake like I did. I may have even gone so far as to ridicule them. You’re confusing 2 different things. You are ocnfusing my disdain for plays like Molefan did on Day 1 of Super Mario where he just up and claimed Vanilla with no provocation and no reason.
I erred and ended up being outed as Vanilla in an attempt to accomplish something. My intent was not to just claim Vanilla unprovoked. If I had wanted to do so, I would have done so.
My ploy had a chance of failing. Given the set of circumstances, you might think it had a high chance of failure. I will continue to agree that it is plausible that a Scum might have done what I’ve done in an attempt to create some WiFoM.
However, I will also contend that a good Town player should ignore WiFoM as it’s fruitless to consider it. I will also continue to contend that I don’t how my failure to get myself confirmed as Town (which would have been apparent to me had I been Scum with the VAnilla Role PM) equates to a nefarious plat to accomplish something I would have known was impossible.
oh for fuck’s sake ed if this doesn’t imply you to be town then my dick just fell off.
neta:
snipped all to heck
<snipped>
yep, good town players would have ignored your nonsense, which i did. kind of tried to make light of it in fact. i don’t believe for a second that you were trying to get confirmed. the more i reread the more it seems like scum trying to suss out vts. so yeh, the more you talk the more i am sure i am on the right path.
[oog] i like ed, btw.[/oog]
I claimed Town, yes. I haven’t denied that. Here’s what you actually said and how I actually responded. It’s not quite as you are implying.
Understood! I was musing, but you’ve clarified your stance for me.
There are things that have been bothering me about ed’s posts, and I’d like to lay them out here and see if a case develops. I’m sorry this is so long.
You introduced the handshaking, which didn’t work. I can’t hold that against you, since you seemed to be helping the town. But your questioning of Chronos never sat right with me. You asked what his win condition section looked like, and then sprung a Gotcha! moment on him when he answered. The whole semantic debate seemed like such an unnecessary distraction, even if you were technically right about the lack of a specific, explicit win condition section.
In fact, you picked at Chronos from the get-go.
Your post, and his post stating that he understood that it was a handshake, came at the same time. And yet, you’re snarky in that and your follow-up post. Why? It’s a needless distraction.
You specifically ask about his win condition:
And then you accuse him of acting anti-town, and possibly scummy, when he gives a direct answer to your question.
You attack meeko for attempting to add to the handshake. Again, a needless distraction. Even if it’s just a joke, you’re not adding to the conversation.
You state on page 6, post 278 that you believe scum have all the information they’ll need to overcome any attempts at handshaking. You draw this conclusion because Mahaloth hasn’t posted and role PMs. I agree with this statement, but I’m posting it here so we have a sense of when you admitted this.
After some helpful discussion, you reiterate that the handshakes aren’t working.
You also indicate that Chronos should not reveal the name of the role he knows, suggesting that Chronos might be looking for that particular player.
Then there’s this. You admit that handshaking had a 2-2 win/loss ratio here on the straight dope. It’s statisically void. Compared to how incredibly gung-ho you were for the handshaking at the beginning of the game, and how much the handshaking did and continues to dominate the discussion, I feel like you’ve thrown an incredible red herring into the mix, one that by your admission seems to make very little difference in the outcome of the game. Your last sentence is especially meaningless, given how every game of mafia involves different rules, roles, and players, making any across-the-board comparison relatively meaningless.
And then you come down hard on Chronos for suggesting a name claim. How is this any different from the handshaking business? Either way, you end up with a pool of possibly confirmed players, and you have to work to sort out the scum liars from the group. The handshake separates the vanilla town from the power roles and scum, except when scum know the handshake. The name claim separates the vanilla town from the power roles and scum (maybe), except when scum make up their own names, and you have to work to sort the scum liars from the group. His idea is only somewhat worse than yours. Yet you vote for him based on it. This is post 513 if anybody wants to check up on this.
Worst of all, nobody mass-claimed as a result of Chronos’ comments! Yet you had plenty of people trying to handshake with you, possibly revealing all sorts of information to the scum among us. And you skate by with almost nobody questioning your intentions.
And then you go and claim anyway.
And shortly afterward, you think the handshaking is useful again, and people can use your role PM to clear up the multiple PMs issue.
But wait, no you don’t, you think it failed again.
Then there’s this quote:
Except for the two times you admitted town lost after handshaking, right? Those were failures. I can accept that maybe you were referring to it failing at the beginning, as opposed to eventually leading to a town loss. But I’d appreciate some consistency on this handshaking business, consistency you’re not offering.
Vote special ed. There’s a whole lot about this that rubs me the wrong way.
blue for votes