Lord of the Rings Mafia

The Game Room
861

1.)

That question, not the vote count question. Think before you post.

And I include it because it would have substantial anti-town implications if we read too much into variation in vanilla PMs or assumed that all PMs that didn’t exactly match ed’s indicated…pretty much anything.

862

No worries. If I’m not able to defend my vote, I shouldn’t be making it in the first place. I do believe, based on the evidence we have here, that Ed is scum. It’d be ridiculous to vote for him if I thought he was town; he helps town just by surviving if he is town, after all.

I do believe his handshaking mess hurt town, and I agree with you that it may have given scum some kind of advantage, although I don’t know at this point if it’s tremendous. I see a solid scum reason for doing what he did, and a weak town reason.

I don’t agree with your last question. I’m never going to vote for something “irrespective” of their alignment. That assumes I know what they are, and I’m voting anyway. That’s silly. :slight_smile:

I can even admit, I wasn’t fully understanding what he meant by comparing other role PMs to his. I was off-base in assuming he meant he wanted to compare them against the posted handshakes earlier. But his subsequent posts have done little to allay my suspicions, and some of what he’s said sounds even scummier. So my vote did its job; it got him talking, and it helped clarify my mind.

Mahaloth: My vote is for Special Ed, not Chronos

863

OK, 'cause from this post it really looks like you think he’s Town but playing in an anti-town manner:

864

oh for goodness sakes. you know that was a bs question that was not going to be answered.

because an answer along the lines of nope and scum are aware of that is game breaking. or if the answer is yes they are all the same and i didn’t let scum know that is also game breaking. or if he answers yes they are all the same and i provided scum that information as well changes things a touch.

jeebus. when did a little level of sarcasm transcend itself to seriousness?

865

**The vote count is wrong, which is my bad.

I’m fixing it. **

866

Just a heads up peek, sarcasm doesn’t translate well across message board posts.

867

:embarassed:

Uh, please check this for accuracy. I have no idea how I messed up so badly last time. This is the vote count, as I have it.
**
Vote Count:

Suburban(8): Telcontar, RedSkeezix, Hoopy, Oredigger, Pleonast, Cucuy, Chipacabra, Nanook

USCDiver(2): Drainbead, Gadarene

Peeker(2): Natlaw, SpecialEd

Astral(2): OneandOnly, USCDiver

Pleonast(2): Meeko, Suburban

SpecialEd(1): Astral**

868

**Mahaloth

I show three votes for Special Ed.

[post=12812105]Post 800[/post] by Peeker.
[post=12812881]Post 824[/post] by Chronos.**

869

I see what you’re saying, Guiri. It was part of an overall post about how suspicious I was finding his actions. I later clarified why I had trouble with it. My thought-process is, either he’s scum and already had it (pro-scum action: he looks more townie, any potential third-parties now have it too), or he’s a third party (pro-scum action: he just gave a role PM to the scum, if they didn’t already have it, and he looks more townie). Even he admits there’s no pro-town reason to post it the way he did, at this time.
I was rereading Ed’s posts, and I found this:

Except we hadn’t determined that at the time you made your comments. You won’t decide that the handshake is worthless for another two pages. Your explanation is an attempt to revise what happened in a more pro-special ed light.

870

Peeker already unvoted that vote. But By my reckoning chronos is still voting ed.

871

I’m feeling lazy. Got a post reference for that unvote by Peeker?

I know Peeker rescinded his previous vote in 798. You’re not counting that, are you?

872

I think he’s counting this one, on this page

873

… probably should have taken the red out of that quote. I just quoted it and posted.

Mahaloth: That does not represent an unvote on my part.

Just in case: Vote special ed

874

peeker unvoted in 856, but I am still voting special ed.

Quoth ed:

Not only did you wait until you had decided whom else to vote for, even then you didn’t make any mention of the fact that your previous vote reasons were gone. The way you did it looked like “I’m still suspicious of Chronos, but I’m even more suspicious of peeker”, not “I’m no longer suspicious of Chronos”. And yes, casting undue suspicion on someone where you don’t actually think it’s warranted is a Scum tell.

Honestly, it looks to me like with both me and peeker (both of us folks that it’s been easy to get a bandwagon going on in the past), you first decided whom you wanted to vote for, and then went looking for reasons. Your current reasons for voting peeker are that you think without any actual evidence that he hasn’t seen the vanilla PM, that you think for some bizarre reason that not being vanilla is a lynchable offense, and that he’s not playing the same way he did the last time he was Scum (this last reason you’re now trying to claim is the primary one, even though you never mentioned it in your vote post). None of those is a good reason for lynching someone. In fact they’re all good reasons for not lynching someone.

875

I’m running my vote counter right now, both for the sake of correctness and posterities sake. It was post 856. Full vote count to come shortly.

876

and i am going to take you task a wee bit here red. you’ve been mason with me and you know how i play this durn game. if there really is anyone participating in this endeavor that seriously thought that was a question that was going to get answered then they need to do some homework. either that or they are just picking.

877

Here’s the vote count as i percieve it thanks to my helpful vote counter:

pleonast (2): [del]peekercpa[/del] [304-328], [del]Astral Rejection[/del] [655-684], Meeko [778], Suburban Plankton [796]
cucuy (0): [del]peekercpa[/del] [328-445], [del]peekercpa[/del] [447-454]
SpecialEd (2): [del]Guiri[/del] [345-351], [del]peekercpa[/del] [800-856], Astral Rejection [823], Chronos [824]
Suburban Plankton (8): [del]Chronos[/del] [372-542], Telcontar [578], Red Skeezix [596], Hoopy Frood [639], Oredigger [643], Pleonast [644], cucuy [739], Chipacabra [774], NanooktheNorthShore [797]
Chronos (0): [del]Hoopy Frood[/del] [404-506], [del]SpecialEd[/del] [513-808]
Hoopy Frood (0): [del]Pleonast[/del] [408-644]
USCDiver (2): [del]Chronos[/del] [585-759], Drain Bead [617], Gadarene [622]
NanooktheNorthShore (0): [del]peekercpa[/del] [586-798]
peekercpa (2): [del]Suburban Plankton[/del] [605-796], Natlaw [764], SpecialEd [808]
Astral Rejection (2): OneandOnly [612], USCDiver [614], [del]NanooktheNorthShore[/del] [673-797]
Not Voting (5): Guiri, LittlePlasticNinja, Inner Stickler, MHaye, Peekercpa

Current Lynch Designee: Suburban Plankton

878

WoW on Astral Rejection (spoilered)#312 Asks about WoWs
#419 Is content to disregard Pleo’s claim, is bothered by Chronos’ claim, no reason not to share info
#422 Comment on color and recruitment
#474 Suspects Pleo for asserting his power role status
#504&505 Is torn about Chronos, suspects Special Ed’ hesitance to let Chronos reveal name
#515 Corrects Special Ed, Chronos knows role and identity and therefore doesn’t need to find that player
#518 In response to Special Ed about Chronos’ push for a name claim, does not trust Chronos, is wary of handshaking, Chronos’ role claim and mass name claim.
#521 Find Chronos suspicious for level of confidence that player X is Town
#597&598 Defends low post count, dislikes Telcontar’s “just being themselves” excuse, likes Chronos’s case against USC, votes, asks about the 3rd vote
#601 Unvotes, USC is more town as he volunteered more info
#633 Defends vote and unvote, admits he skimmed Chronos’ case but doesn’t answer question about inconsistency
#635 In response to Pleo’s suggestion for a “fellowship claim”, does not see benefit
#640 Defends vote again, understands that offering up extra info in the handshake doesn’t mean anything without confirmation. Asks Hoopy why he suspects Suburban over Chronos when both are reluctant to share info
#647 To Oredigger, repeats suspicions of Pleo and explains reasons for calling out his second claim
#651 In response to Pleo, asks why he made claim
#654&655 votes Pleo for repeating his power role claim, defends original reasoning on vote and unvote for USC
#660 Still wants to know why Pleo claimed
#675 To Nanook, is talking about Pleo’s claim as he’s being asked about his vote. Has a number of reasons for voting Pleo: power role claim and suggestion for a “fellowship claim”
#684 Unvotes, making suggestions isn’t scummy
#708 To me, repeats reasons for voting Pleo and adds that he’s made snarky comments, repeats reasoning behind vote and unvote of USC, not willing to assume scum have access to a PM - only circumstantial evidence
#734 In response to USC’s comment that voting solely on another player’s reasoning alone is scummy, says that he checked afterwards and unvoted
#735 To Hoopy, explains that most other players were willing to ignore both his reasons for voting Pleo, cannot argue further and “neither of my points are terribly damning anyway”
#736 Offers possible Town motivation for vote/unvote, saw a similar mistake in HP and wouldn’t make the same mistake
#775 Questions Natlaw’s vote of Peeker over Suburban and if was really just because Suburban had enough votes
#819 Accepts Natlaw’s explanation. Analyzes Special Ed to “see if a case develops” mainly focused on the handshake effort and way he questioned Chronos, attack on Meeko, his VT claim and sharing his role PM
#823 Corrects vote, responds to Special Ed about motive for posting PM
#825 Further defence, raises concern that a failed handshake hurts town
#830&831 More discussion with Special Ed
#835 Defends vote- Metagaming, his first post was #312, after Day 1 had started. In #376 Mahaloth stated that he started the Day “so we didn’t all just sit around with everyone confirmed waiting for the Day to start”, I wonder how Astral confirmed if it wasn’t in the game thread

  • He expressed suspicion of Chronos in #504, #518 & #521 but then blindly followed his vote on USC. A terrible “me too” vote based on an admitted skim of another player’s case.
  • His unvote makes little or no sense to me. If he was willing to make the assumption that USC was a scum with access to a false PM in order to attempt the handshake, the fact that USC added further info to the handshake tells us nothing of his towniness. While it’s possible he realized his vote was weak and spontaneously went back and reviewed, it really looks like he either had his chain yanked (which would require Day talk abilities outside this thread) or he realized he’d voted for someone he shouldn’t have
  • He voted Pleo mentioning only his power role claim, he later added further reasons including the suggestion for a “Fellowship claim” and then unvoted when he was told that making suggestions isn’t scummy. When I asked him about his other reasons for voting Pleo in the first place, he simply repeated them. When pushed by Hoopy, he admitted that they weren’t very damning anyway and most other players were willing to ignore them
  • While I am in partial agreement with his suspicions of Special Ed, his vote doesn’t actually accuse him of being scum, he even states that Special Ed of “handed [scum] a complete vanilla town PM to compare against those who posted. You were assuming they had one. Now it’s certain. Anti-town, pro scum.”
  • Conflicting opinions, voted USC for being scum with a false PM, unvoted USC for having added to the handshake, commented that we can’t assume scum have access to a VT PM, votes Special Ed for sharing the VT PM with scum (among other things), thinks Special Ed is scum
  • I think it’s time to put my vote where my mouth is

Vote Special Ed

I can’t resolve Special Ed’s actions with being Town. While there was possibly a Town motivation for the initial handshake attempt, that disappeared within an hour of the attempt and he should have made that very clear at the time.

I think it was an extremely ballsy move for scum to attempt the handshake based on a cover role knowing that it could eventually be deemed a failure but, if they could get a number of confirmed VTs out of the unconfirmed pool, it was probably worth sacrificing one scum. Special Ed encouraged the handshaking even after Mahaloth had posted so he was aware of its failure well before he came out and admitted it. He’s explained why he chose to handshake based on more than just the wincon but that doesn’t explain why he let Chronos fall into the trap of exposing himself as a power role and encouraged handshaking based on the SAHM sentence.

879

**Vote Count:
Suburban(8): Telcontar, RedSkeezix, Hoopy, Oredigger, Pleonast, Cucuy, Chipacabra, Nanook

USCDiver(2): Drainbead, Gadarene

Peeker(2): Natlaw, SpecialEd

Astral(2): OneandOnly, USCDiver

Pleonast(2): Meeko, Suburban

SpecialEd(2): Astral, Chronos**

This is correct.

880

(Underlining added.) Please don’t make false statements about what I have and have not done. I have in fact answered questions about my claim. Not liking my answers does not give you the right to deny their existence.

This is a perfect example of very poor logic. peeker infers something from ed’s post and then attacks ed for saying it, when it is all in peeker’s head.

ed hasn’t claimed to be confirmed in any way. But if he is town (and scum know if he is), he is outed as vanilla to them. That’s all he is saying. But peeker jumps off the cliffs of logic and accuses ed of claiming to be confirmed.

It’s good to try to make inferences from others’ posts. But please, try to keep them separate from what was actually said.

peeker’s argument looks to me like scum trying to get a player lynched by spinning what another said.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I’m glad to see the requirement for unvoting has ensured an accurate vote count.[/snark]