Under ordinary circumstances, I would have pointed it out, but given that I had already told everyone that I knew something, I decided it would be for the best if I didn’t. On Day 1, I didn’t yet know that Telcontar was a power role, so I presumed that there really were multiple versions of the vanilla PM, and that it didn’t actually out Gadarene. On Day 2, once Telcontar was revealed, that became less likely, but at the same time, with the Doctor revealed, I thought it most likely that Aragorn was the Detective, which is generally Town’s most significant power, so I became even more reluctant to point out a slip: Scum might reason that I noticed the slip because I knew he was Aragorn to begin with, and so deduce that he’s Aragorn, and so kill him.
Quoth Drain Bead:
At the same time, though, if Scum have an investigator, they’ve already had two full Nights to investigate into that unknown pool, and if they have a roleblocker and don’t yet know of any specific role to block, they’ll also be blocking into that unknown pool in addition to killing in it. So yes, I do think it’s reasonably likely that Scum will be hitting power roles left and right.
But he could play that WiFoM game just as well by not saying whether he has a power role or not. Claiming a role only really makes sense if there’s a significant chance he’s a Scotsman who sees his attacker or a bomb or something like that, and really, how common are those roles? Plus, of course, not saying anything would avoid the problem of potentially painting himself into a corner.
Quoth Meeko:
What’s the point of saying this? OK, it doesn’t do much harm, given that you’ve already handshook as vanilla, but I can’t see that it really does any good, either.
Congrats on coming out! But it doesn’t change any of the arguments against you–a claim without proof or means of proof should be ignored.
Lack of discussion hurts town. Your posts are sometimes helpful (like this one I’m responding to). But so often they are not.
And every player who has a vote is the arbiter of the line. Is really so hard for you to understand that we are supposed to be making judgements like this? Why do you, peeker, vote for a player if not because you, peeker, have judged that that player is anti-town? Why do you complain about me making judgements when you have been too?
(DrainBead, this is the type of hypocrisy (or suspiciously bad inattention) that peeker has been doing this game.)
I’m not against a mass name claim, but it should not be done ad hoc. If we’re going to do it, we need an unbiased order to force claims in. I’d suggest we use random.org’s pregenerated random list for tomorrow 31 Aug. No one right now knows what the order will be and it cannot be manipulated.
I care not how you played mafia. I look only at this game. (I do not like meta-game arguments.) This game, I think you are playing anti-town and so are more likely than not to be scum.
If the Vig is town, then lynching him is a mislynch and brings the town closer to a loss. (Unless the Vig is being redirected by scum, in which case they must by lynched.) Depending on the numbers, Vigs typically only need to scum-to-town kill ratio of better than about 1/4 or 1/3 in order to be a net help to the town. The main drawback of a Vig is shortening the game, rather than accidentally killing townies.
Because you say that the lynch is certain, you imply there is no reason to consider other players.
Umm, you say taking out the runner-up is a frequent Vig strategy. How is that not advocating what the Vig should do? Or, are you saying that although it’s a common tactic, you are against it?
We must be using a different language, because the answer is the same answer. MHaye doesn’t like to call players “scum”. So he uses a different term. Why wouldn’t he use it the scum thread? If he doesn’t like the term “scum”, he doesn’t like it the scum thread as well. And scum have as much need to refer to themselves as town does itself. I don’t know why he chose “SAHM” instead of “SOD”, ask him.
I like to give moderators a chance to fix holes in their rules first. But if a moderator is clear that they are intentionally not revealing a potential shared secret, then it is a valid play to take advantage of it. I would have implemented it the way I described earlier–posting the hash of my signed victory condition.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
And with that, I think I’ve finally caught up to the end of the thread.
Congrats on coming out! But it doesn’t change any of the arguments against you–a claim without proof or means of proof should be ignored.
I added the Bold.
So you just gave me permission to ignore you? Gotcha.
<snipped>
<Apparently Pleonast has issues with Peeker, as much, if not more as Pleonast has issues with me. Snipped>
I’m not against a mass name claim, but it should not be done ad hoc. If we’re going to do it, we need an unbiased order to force claims in. I’d suggest we use random.org’s pregenerated random list for tomorrow 31 Aug. No one right now knows what the order will be and it cannot be manipulated.
Uh, Saying you are not against a claim, while not claiming is at best a Dodge. [On top of how many other dodges you have going on, currently?]
I’m taking bets that this step to delay Pleonast from claiming will result in us NEVER claiming.
**Why am I not surprised that Pleonast didn’t claim here? **
I care not how you played mafia. I look only at this game. (I do not like meta-game arguments.) This game, I think you are playing anti-town and so are more likely than not to be scum.
I’m Anti-town? I find this very,VERY Rich coming from you. If the Vig is town, then lynching him is a mislynch and brings the town closer to a loss. (Unless the Vig is being redirected by scum, in which case they must by lynched.) Depending on the numbers, Vigs typically only need to scum-to-town kill ratio of better than about 1/4 or 1/3 in order to be a net help to the town. The main drawback of a Vig is shortening the game, rather than accidentally killing townies. We have a Vig in the game? That’s news to me. How on earth do you know this, Pleonast?
I don’t have time to fully answer your question at this point peeker, but the main reason I said I would come for you next is your posts that Day seemed determined to distract from the lynch of Chit itself, rather than the normal distractions your posts can create. In other words, you seemed to be posing peeker-like with a specific purpose. If Chit is scum, there’s motivation for a scummy peeker to do this. If Chit isn’t, this turns into a null tell on your part. There would be no motivation for a scum peeker to distract from a townie lynch, and a town peeker who didn’t know the alignment wouldn’t be intentionally distracting. If it’s a townie peeker who did know Chit’s alignment, it’d be better for that townie peeker to just come right out and say so in the end. I’m of the opinion that anyone who can prevent what they know is going to be a mislynch should. It was why I came out earlier than I wanted to originally as a Detective in SMB because someone I had investigated as town (and the godfather being dead at that point) was up for lynch. But I digress.
It was just a feeling I got, and I wasn’t going to pursue it unless Chit came up scum, because I particularly don’t have any desire to go slogging through pages of peek-speak to try to find evidence of a case that isn’t there.
[oog]Expect my overall participation to drop dramatically for the rest of the game. They released a memo last week at work that they are going to start monitoring internet usage much more closely than they used to. Apparently some people even got laid off recently for too much net usage. So I can pretty much only post during the daytime at lunch, and evenings are touch and go.[/oog]
Not going to bother trying to parse through quoting Pleo’s mega-post.
Implying that we shouldn’t consider anyone else? That’s rich, seeing as I’ve been considering YOU far more than ed.
Saying that something is a frequent strategy and that you’re surprised that it wasn’t implemented last night (and wondering what it means about the state of roles in-game) is not saying that the strategy should have been carried out.
You ask why MHaye wouldn’t use the term in the Scum thread. My response is and always has been “because people don’t generally go around referring to themselves in the third-person willy-nilly.” Please give me one good example of WHY Scum would need to refer to themselves with an acronym in their own thread. Otherwise, I’ll continue thinking what I’ve always thought, which is that this makes MHaye more likely to be Town than Scum. I am not the only person who has made this point to you, and you’ve ignored it every time. The question you asked is the crux of what I’m asking you, which is “Why would he?” To answer that question with “Why wouldn’t he?” isn’t an answer at all.
Ok ok, seriously, I don’t mean to destroy or take away from Drain here. In the least. Nor do I mean to take away from the entire post, either. If I have a serious issue with it, I will address it later.
(Desized.) Gah! Learn to quote. That’s going to be hard for others to determine who said what.
First, I told the town to ignore my claim back on Day One. Good to hear you finally got the message.
Second, Meeko, you apparently have no foresight of what’s good for town or not, do you? Except I don’t think you’re really so naive. I think you’re intentionally playing so in order to excuse your anti-town tactics.
Ad hoc throwing out name claims is the exact wrong way to do a mass claim. It lets scum chose exactly when to put out their claim. It maximized the risk to town and minimizes the risk to scum. This is not controversial.
Third, if you’re going to accuse me of playing anti-town, please be specific so that others can judge the merits of your case against me.
Fourth, I fail to understand your point about a Vig.
Then why’d you make the point about ed’s lynch being inevitable?
Maybe not equivalent, but certainly inferrable.
I haven’t ignored it, I’ve answered it the same way. Not my fault that others can’t see the obvious.
Look in this thread. Players use the term “town”. Do you think that none of the players using that term are town? Because by saying the scum will never say “scum”, you’re also implying town would never say “town”. Collective terms are used by both sides for both sides; it’s that simple.
I have never seen a game where the Scum, in their own thread, bothered to refer to themselves as anything other than “we” or “us”. Presumably, the difference between this and Townies referring to themselves as “Town” is that, first, there’s much less discussion on the Scum board, and second, the Scum all know who each other are.
Because that’s the way it seemed at the time. He was in the lead with a couple of one-offs, and he had been 2nd for so long that the whole thing seemed like a foregone conclusion. Now you and he are tied, although there are a LOT of votes still out there. (Which I also find weird–where is everyone?)
One man’s inference is another man’s twist and smudge. But nice to see you admit that I never said what you initially claimed I said.
I’m not saying that the Scum will never say scum ever. I’m saying that they have no reason to say it ON THEIR OWN BOARD, TO ONE ANOTHER. Seriously, I’m not sure how I can make this point any clearer to you. Collective terms are frequently used in the game thread, but not necessarily in the Scum thread, because THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND WHO THE TOWN IS. I honestly can’t picture a single instance in which the Scum would need to refer to themselves in the third person in their own thread, and you’ve not provided me with any reason to believe otherwise.
Can someone other than Pleonast explain to me where my logic fails here? I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall.
Learn how to quote. You mean, as I am doing now? I find it interesting that other players besides me didn’t want to wade in into your overlong, complicated just to be complicated, let’s tangle it up more, diatribe.
Ignoring your Claim. Well this is a hard one, ain’t it? I mean what pro-town person wouldn’t give you the benefit of the doubt, on day 1? You have to prove yourself somehow. I mean, you get the Day 1 pass, in order to prove yourself on the start of Day 2.
**GET THIS MESSAGE: IT IS NO LONGER DAY 1. **You have worn out any Grace period you thought you had.
Foresight on knowing what is good for town. I think voting for you is good for town. Is that enough foresight for you?
Ad Hoc: **for the particular end or case at hand without consideration of wider application **
Interesting thing about this. I said the following [In bold, no less] :
please consider the merits of coming in after me and doing likewise.
PLEONAST FAIL.
Not only are you Dodging and Delaying, you are now attempting to use my words against me, and you aren’t even using your own words correctly.
Ok, so you want me to re-hash everything I’ve already done, in reference to your coasting on a Town Claim that you haven’t verified? Shit. You’ve ignored me this long, I guess you deserve for me to go around again. What better way to delay again. Eh?
Well, I guess you think, that since it works for the GOP it can work for you, eh?
You are Teflon. Nothing has stuck, nothing will stick. C.F. “Never mud wrestle with a pig, you will only get dirty, and the pig enjoys it too much.” And / Or “The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again.”
Vig: It would seem we both can be clearer on this one. Let me extend an olive branch here:
Pleonast: Do you think we have a Vig in this game?
