Losing your native language?

Factual Questions
21

Well, I am now also taking German!

So far, it hasn’t intereferred with my Spanish, except I really want to say oder instead of “o” to mean or. Its hard. And, if I want to say something with the verb “Tu lo has hecho” its very easy to get “Du hast” in there somewhere!

But for the question about the swiss person, she doesn’t think in any language. Thought is independent of Language, but they are often tied up in them.

I bet you guys would love Stephen Pinker’s “The language Instinct” because it talks about things like this alot. His justification is that, sometimes, you can’t remember the word for a thought. Sometimes you can’t find the right word. Therefore if thought were only available in terms of language, then you would never think in terms of some term you don’t know.

As far as what Eats Crayons says, I’ll add to that a little, or modify it maybe.

I spoke english only for 20 years before I went to spain. After having been in Spain for 6 months, I was getting good in Spanish. Good enough to carry on a conversation with almost anyone about anything without missing a beat. So, when I came back, I started learning German.

Now, it has been MUCH easier to learn German than it was to learn Spanish. I really think learning a second 2nd language is much easier if you have gotten pretty good already in another language, because you have already learned to understand other languages. It seems like that skill works independently of what language it is. I haven’t translated German words into english. The true test of that is to ask yourself, or have someone ask you, “what is the word for window” and "what is the word for this: (picture of a window). If it takes you longer to answer the verbal question, then you are doing good. This shows that you are translating the english word into a visual image, and the visual image to das Fenster.

22

I am bilingual in English and Spanish and the answer is not really what you think. There is no “switching” languages. Your knowledge is all in one big pool. When I talk with bilingual people we switch back and forth as if it were one language. When I speak to someone who only speaks one language I often find myself having to search for expressions because half of what comes to me is in the other language. Just imagine you suddenly had a much wider vocabulary and grammar etc. I have never thought in one language and translated. And I hardly ever dream but if I remember any dreams they can be in any language. I hope that helps.

23

can I ask, are they both your native language?

If so, it is a different thing. There have been of brain-scans of people who are bilingual by birth, and those who aquired another language after adulthood. Those who were fluent in both from an early age treated the languages the same, while those who learned another language later had different neurological signs. For instance, in the second group, neurological activities were recorded in different places, while the bilingual from early age group had activity only in one place.

24

FTR, I generally don’t use the “what language do you think in” as a measure of first language, as I find myself, and through talking to others that that is a rather inaccurate way to go about it. I often think in Swedish, in fact I mainly think in Swedish when I am living in Sweden, because you get into the Swedish mindset.
I generally refer to ones “emotional language” instead. It is hard to define tho, because many people will still react in the non-native language, but that is generally for less extreme reactions. I was swearing at cars that nearly knocked me over in Swedish within weeks, but when I found out a relative had died, I reacted in english. I was near to fainting recently and could barely string a sentace together in Swedish. The “emotional language” is sort of, your language of desperation… does that make any sense?

25

futureman, yes, I grew up bilingual and I can understand that it is a very different case from people who learnt a language as adults. It is ashame more parents do not raise their children bilingual because at that age it costs no effort and the gift is of huge value. Wait a few years and you have lost the advantage.

26

yep, I agree on the bilingual thing. I will probably end up marrying someone from Europe, so I will make sure that we have a bilingual family. Most Europeans think this is great to, so its a good idea. A lot of times, though, the child refuses to speak one language although they can.

27

My parents have friends whose son was brain-damaged in an accident and couldn’t speak for a while. When speech returned, it was the first language he acquired as a child that came back first, (even though he wasn’t as facile at it as english) and then english. I’ve heard of this phenomenon before, and I think you never lose your first language - it gets hardwired in.

28

My maternal grandfather was German, after over 30 years living in Zimbabwe and speaking English (mostly, he spoke several other languages fluently) he went back to Germany to claim compensation for the property he lost when he had to leave in 1930.

My mother says the letter he sent, which he had written on the plane was extremely odd. He spent the entire journey changing his thoughts from English back into German. The letter was almost unreadable, a few English words , then a German one, then a German phrase with an English grammatical order etc.
But it came back to him, he argued his case and won.

Then he spent the next 2 months trying to switch back- once he’d started thinking in German it took much longer to think in English again.

29

This is purely anecdotal, but for whatever it is worth:

One of my great aunts immigrated to the U.S. when she was in her twenties. As a boy I knew her when she was in her late eighties of early nineties. It was my understanding that she had primarily spoken Gaelic as a child; my mother told me that when she was growing up it frustrated her how my grandmother (my great aunt’s sister) and another great aunt would speak only Gaelic around her and her siblings so they wouldn’t pick up any of their gossip. Once my sister asked her if she could teach us some Gaelic, and she told us, apparently in all sincerity, that she no longer remembered any, aside from common guide book sayings such as “good morning”, “thank you”, and “all your base are belong to us”.

30

Purely Anectodal:
A classmate was born in Brazil, though his parents were Argentinian Diplomats. His native language was Portuguese. He moved back to Argentina at age 5. He moved to the US, and now cannot speak any Portuguese except for a few random words. I don’t know how much of an influence having his parents speak Spanish was on him, though.

31

One of my best friends grew up speaking only Croatian at home (in the U.S., but he led a VERY sheltered life), only learning English when he started school. He never stopped hearing Croatian on a daily basis at home, but he has never been fully bilingual in Croatian, even at a kindergarten level. Lord knows I’ve listened to him arguing about non-six-year-old things with his mom in Croatian, like politics, but he has to throw in a lot of English to make himself understood because he can’t remember the Croatian words.

It’s not the typical case of someone being able to speak the first language at the level of a small child, but having native-language development stop at whatever age the native language switched from primary to secondary. He even forgets very, very simple words like names of colors and basic foods, and he says he screws up his case endings all the time. It’s really weird; he has completely normal passive vocabulary, but large chunks of the passive vocabulary have either never become active vocabulary, or were once active and have faded partially out of his brain.

As for myself: well, on those occasions I’ve been basically separated from my native language (never more than 4 months at a time), most of all I would find it difficult to remeber idioms and slang expressions properly. Sometimes I would even translate idioms of whatever language I’d been speaking literally into English (while studying in Spain, for example, I was talking to my mom on the phone late in the semester, and I said something to her about “throwing the blame,” which is a literal tranlsation of “echar la culpa.”) Also, if I’m trying to speak a foreign language I haven’t used much recently, sometimes words pop out in one I have been using more recently, rather than in English (my native). For example, I’ve never been fluent in French and have few opportunities to use it, but if I try to speak it, words pop out in Russian, which I do use semi-regularly.

32

Space, you’re just rusty. If you don’t write in English for several months, of course it will slip - no matter where you live. You live in China in a pretty Chinese environment, yep you’re gonna forget the name of that basketball team in Chicago, you know the one I’m talking about, with that guy, you know, the famous player, I think his name started with an M or something…happens all the time. :slight_smile:

You’re just not exposed to the same vocabulary and getting reinforced like you would if you were in the US.

Also, you tend to take on what is around you. If you’re around only Chinese speakers, your thought process and speech will be all in Chinese. If you are around bilingual Chinese speakers, then you’ll get used to responding in a bilingual way. If you’re used to several different groups and interact with them on a very frequent basis, then you should keep that level instead of seeing a degration in your ability

33

I know a girl who had a Polish nanny when she was very young and started speaking Polish before she did English. Then her parents fired the nanny and she forgot Polish.

Whenever I’m speaking a language that isn’t my native one for long stretches, switching back to English is only hard when I think about it. :wink:

34

I was raised bilingual (French and English) and learned both at the same time, near as anyone can recall. I spent about six months in France when I was five (I think; maybe six?) and came back to the States neither speaking nor understanding English. It had zero long-term effect on my mastery of English.

As a grown-up, I find that my French is choppy and weird when I first get off the plane in France, and more or less smooth and normal a week or three later.

In short, I wouldn’t worry about losing your English. Sure, it might be getting rusty, but it’ll bounce right back after you spend a week or two in the States. In the meantime, make a point of reading in English. I personally, with absolutely no evidence or anything :slight_smile: , think that this is tremendously helpful in maintaining fluency. I subscribe to a French magazine or two: imagine, fresh reading material delivered right to my door, in subjects that interest me! O wonders! You pay more to get it shipped overseas, but it’s generally not that bad.

(<hijack>
Parents with bilingual children: order kids’ magazines from a country where the other language is spoken. Also maybe CDs of kid music or something. (I had a bunch of tapes of storytellers telling stories.) My parents did this and it worked beautifully.
</hijack>)

I can only comment on my own experiences.

Most bilinguals are ‘dominant’ in one language or another. (Ask them what language they do math in. There’s usually a very clear answer.)

I am English-dominant. I think in English, but I don’t “translate”, per se. I’ll think “let’s go to the bookstore” but say “allons a la librarie”. The process of turning “thought” into “verbalization of thought” is identical whether or not the language of the former matches the language of the latter.
(Of course, since my French isn’t as good as my English, I’ll hit “roadblocks” as I search for the right words. This is usually jarring, to me, a sort of grinding of gears.)

I almost always dream in English, even when I’ve been in France several weeks.

Hope this helps!