The more time I spend reading Chinese the more embarrassing my English-language posts get. Today I cracked an English book for the first time in about three months and read about five pages before giving up because I wasn’t doing much more than staring at the pages. It may’ve just been that the book was dry so far, but maybe not. The same thing happened last time I returned to the US from six months in China, for my first term back I just couldn’t focus on my readings at all. Should I worry? Obviously I’m not going to FORGET English, but does anyone have any to toss out, be it scientific or anecdotal?
I am not sure if you should worry.
Is it possible to loose the usage of your native tongue. It’s possible, but I am not sure if totally.
From my own personal experience, yes you can loose quite a bit as far writting and composing, but one can still retain reading and discourse. I was born and raised in Mexico up to my early teens, Spanish was my first language, learned and used English as a primary language from Junior High up to the present, but live in a region that is bilingual (South Texas - Eng/Span). So, yes, I have noticed that my writing skills for basic composition (writing at Junior High level) in Spanish is very weak and need to check my Spanish dictionary just to make sure I have spelled correctly. Once in a while I’ll have to check on the conjugation of verbs. Still, I have noticed I am very capable of having a good conversation in Spanish and in reading High School to University level readings in Spanish. Once in a while I’ll forget a word for a specific object or action, but not much.
So, should you worry. I don’t think so unless you see yourself living in a Chinese community that has no English outlet.
Again, all of this anecdotal and p.o.v.
XicanoreX
I’m much more worried about losing my 2nd language… haven’t had the option of losing English so far. 
Anyhow - back in junior high I had a social teacher from… Hungary I think. He said that though it was his first language, he could barely remember any Hungarian, having spoken English for so long. I presume he moved to Canada when he was still very young, and he was perhaps over 50 when he remarked this, so while I think you can forget a language, it would take some doing to do so.
So personally I wouldn’t worry, but that’s just me.
No, you won’t lose your native language. Your post was very readable (if that is a word) and I think that you may lose the ability to converse in the current colloquilaism (SP) (spelling in a big way) but you will never lose your native tongue. (my opinion)
I want to re-emphasize, I’m not worried about totally losing my English by any stretch, even if I were going to be here longer than I expect. It just seems I’m a bit less articulate in speaking lately, and there are more misspellings and omitted words in my writing. Sure, these posts are passable, that’s because I’m paying attention. I’m just worried that when I return to the US I’ll be a little off.
It’s possible to lose your native language. I have only anecdotal “evidence” though. My mother immigrated to the U.S. from Quebec with her family when she was 11. She spoke only French until she started school at 5 or 6 but when she came to the states she stopped speaking it altougher. Apparently it made her too different and the kids were cruel about it. By the time I was school age, she no longer spoke or understood french at all even though when my grandmother was angry she tended to shout her furies in french.
when i was 12, i spent about 6 weeks with my family in germany. we spoke only farsi with each other. when my mother called i noticed it was really hard for me to think of certain words in english. it was just from lack of use. i’ve noticed that when you speak a language for a while, you start to think in it. it’s just a matter of switching languages in your mind. about a day or two after using english again you should be fine.
well, guys here is my first post, so here goes:
I think language works differently for everyone, and I know various people for whom it works differently.
I assume that although you are in China ( I presume ) that you probably have access to speakers of English, but probably not native speakers. Most likely when you aren’t speaking Chinese, you are probably speaking a simplified version of english so that non-native speakers can understand more easily.
This was my experience. I lived in Spain for 6 months, and towards the end, I had no access to native english speakers. Well, I did know Irish and British, but there IS a difference. I would often forget English words. And when I returned to the States, it was incredibly strange. I couldn’t believe that I was hearing English again, and it was so strange.
We all have different versions of English that we utilize. We have our best, most proper english when we are speaking in a professional situation, and you probably have a home english, where you use much slang, and really relax. You probably have a friend’s english where you may pepper your conversation with words like “like” and obscenities.
I would think that your foreigners english also fits into this category. In my experience, when you are accostomed to using a certain version of english for extended periods of time, then , in my experience, you sort of lose the feel for the words. Did you ever sit around your parents and accidentally slip into the “friend’s english?” It happens, especially when someone leaves the home.
Lets take a word for example, destoryed
In friend’s english: got F***** up
Family english: got messed up
Best english: obliterated, erradicated…etc.
foreigner’s english: broken (depends on the person, and how well you know he speaks english)
I would suspect that you are probably stuck in foreigner’s english and with a little time in your other areas of communication, you will be back with little practice.
Of course, I believe that everyone has a different relationship with languages. I, myself, tend to learn a foreign language through speech and listening than I do reading and writing.
I knew a man who came from the Netherlands to America in his twenties, and he is about sixty now, and I was with him in Holland, and he automatically seemed to be at home there.
In my experience, when you are around a certain group of people, and communicating with a certain group, your language tends to morph into their way of communication. If you are with non-native speakers, then it will tend to be simplified.
My father spoke only Polish until he was seven years old (he grew up in Canada). I don’t think he could carry on a conversation in Polish now (although he will from time to time sing an old Polish anthem) so yes, I’d say it’s possible to lose your mother tongue.
I would suppose that this is due to the fact that people can learn language with native-like fluency until the age of 12, perhaps that also means that you can loose a language before the age of 12?
I honestly think its different with everyone, so its really a mixed bag. My above example is simply how I explain my experience.
That’s a good theory, futureman. While I still send e-mails, I’ve had one extended conversation with a native English speaker in three months. Some days I don’t speak English at all.
As somone who has only been speaking english in a home environment (and that only 50/50) for about 8 years, I can sympathise. I am at no risk of loosing my english, but one could definatly say its development has atrophied. There are lots of words that I simply do not know in english, as I moved before I would ever had had a need for them (words relating to "grown up stuff like paying bills, working, etc). My english has also become very unpolished, ah, there is a good example. It is flavoured by the Swedish language, and while completely understandable, it’s just a little “off” I think.
Iteki is right. I have a friend who is from Germany. She moved to the States while in her teens. While she hasn’t forgotten her German, her vocabulary is that of a teenager. She also lacks the more recently developed idiomatic expressions. So, if she had to carry on a formal conversation in German, she would sound fairly uneducated. She’s much more comfortable and proficient discussing “adult” subjects in English.
I hope it’s permitted to put a second general question here, since I think it’s very closely related to the OP:
When I was in high school, my French teacher was from Switzerland, where she was raised speaking German, Italian, and French. She also spoke English, very well, but it was obviously not at the head of the line.
What I always wanted to ask, but never did, was:
In what language would she think? Does a person well versed in all these languages think in one language and then have to translate everything? What about dreaming? Is there a primary language in dreams?
Maybe some of you folks could offer some insight?
My mom’s first language was Spanish. Didn’t speak it, read it or write it for decades other than when talking to distant relatives (uncommon occurence.) She had a dreadful time when she got a job that required her to speak Spanish a lot. It drove her a little bonkers at first because she said she felt like an “inarticulate imebcile” – but in time, getting used to it again, it all came flooding back.
My first language is actually French (with English and Spanish thrown in the mix). After I moved out for univeristy and found myself living in an all-English environment… Well, it’s been about 12 years since I spoke, read, or wrote in French regularly.
Like my mom, when I now speak with my French colleagues, I feel like an “inarticulate imbecile” making the most basic mistakes and using literal English-toFrench translations and improper syntax. It’s embarassing!
Nontheless, the more I get used to it, the more I’m finding that it’s all flooding back. If there are no anglophones around, I get used to thinking in French again and there are times when I’m back to speaking like a pro. In fact, a couple of times I had probelms shifting back into English.
Never fear, you may go through phases in which you feel like a goof, but it all comes back pretty quickly once you’re re-immersed in your language.
barb b I find that I tend to “think” in concepts anyway. If I see a “red ball” my brain is actually evaluating it as a solid, round, bouncy, red, shiny thing.
When I’m reasoning something out in my head – you know when you have an internal dialogue in which you are actually conversing with yourself mentally?-- then it tends to be either whichever language I was just using, or the one I used when I was first learning to speak.
Otherwise, I think in the language I’m currently speaking. There is no need to mentally translate (that would take far, far too much effort and would be exhausting). There is a difference for people who grew up bilungual or trilingual though.
Now that Sniffs_Markers is taking French lessons, I appreciate that more. I’ve realized that for someone who only grew up with one language, it’s hard to learn a second language as an adult because you try to relate it back to what you know. Sniff_Markers is mentally translating everything. I do not.
As for dreaming, the language of my dreams is highly influenced by my current environment. As I hear mostly English in the world around me, I currently dream mostly in English. If I dream I’m a little kid again, or back home, or back in school for one of those “I’m at school naked!” dreams, then it’s in French. My childhood environment was all French, so any dreams set in my childhood default to French. If I’m visiting friends in Quebec, or if I’m dating a francophone, or if I hear French all day, I’ll probably dream in French.
****Eats_Crayons ** - Wow. Thank you. I hadn’t thought about the difference between the conceptual thought and the reasoning (internal conversation). I guess I must take the “red, shiny, bouncy” stuff and make it all language.
That’s interesting.
I’ll have to sit quietly some time today and consider whether there’s concept or conversation going on inside.
A whole new topic!
Even if you lose it, it will be easy to return once you start to use it again. We lived in Italy for many years and although English is my first language, my children who went to Italian babysitters, school, and had Italian playmates only spoke English in the home. Eventually it just seemed easier to speak Italian instead of English for the ease and speed of their understanding. I eventually found that I had to really THINK hard about it to come up with English to communicate with my family and friends in the states.
We moved to the US a year ago and my English returned very quickly. What’s more, my kids now have to think about it to speak Italian even though that is their first language. But comprhension was never a problem. Even when I was at my worst for speaking/reading English, when anyone spoke to me, I could understand easily. Same with Italian now and even German though I haven’t lived in Germany formany years.
It is indeed very possible, but seems to me to be only if you are taken from the native environment at an early age.
My boss was born in India but moved with his family to the UK when he was six, and then moved to the US to go to med school. He has been here ever since and is now in his 50’s. It is odd because he still has a fairly thick Indian accent, but says he does not remember any of his native language.
To semi-hijack and comment on Eats_Crayons’s post:
I took four years of French in high school, and by the end of my senior year, I could watch movies and television and, while I wouldn’t know exactly every single thing said, I’d definitely know what was going on and have a very good idea of the dialogue. I could read magazines with little difficulty and could read some books with actually figuring out words from the context of the sentence. I haven’t used any French in 3 years now so most of it has faded, but I want to pick it up again eventually.
Right now I’m taking German. I’m one of the best in the class (please don’t take that as bragging), excluding the guy who’s from Germany. 
I think the reason I got relatively proficient at French (with only high school classes) and why I’m doing well in German is for the exact reason that Eats_Crayons mentioned:
When learning any vocab words for another language, I do not translate it into English. When I learned that “the window” was “das Fenster”, I would mentally conjure an image of a window and repeat “das Fenster, das Fenster, das Fenster” over and over and over again. “The window” for “das Fenster” came later. First, it was important that I knew exactly what the word was. Even for words that are more of a concept, feeling or idea, I’ll think of the general feeling connected with the idea instead of thinking “german word is english word”.
[sub]Of course, I have my French messing with my German sometimes! I go to write “parce que” for “because”, “mais” for “aber”, and I could remember that “Heute” meant “aujourd’hui” but not that it meant “today” when I first came across the word.[/sub]