Yes. Rivendale. How can you possibly be unfamiliar with it?
Run by Hiram Lodgerond, and his glorious daughter Arwonica and advised by elders Weatherbie and Grundey. It’s a peaceful little valley town, frozen in an eternal idealized past. The companions who would become the Fellowship gathered and discussed the disposal of the Ring at Ye Olde Chocolate Shoppe before Archio said “Jeepers Mr. Lodgerond! I’ll take that crazy Ring, even though I don’t know the way and my jalopy’s in the shoppe”. So Archio and Jughead, his faithful companion joined the mighty band of warriors and set out on the quest.
They left singing Archio’s uncle’s famous song:
Sugar, sugar goes ever on and on
Running like honey from where it began
though far ahead you have gone, my candy girl
Far from the door where we began.
Have you read the book or even seen the movie? These are pretty elementary plot points. Geez. Noobs. :rolleyes:
Every time you think a topic has been debated utterly to death, some magnificent new angle turns up! Thank you for one of the funniest mental images ever!
My details on this are vague, but IIRC he rode that distance.
If not, we never have any insights at all on what happened to the person that carried him.
Added to that, the only people present were Aragorn and other Hobbits, none of whom were particularly susceptible. They were a very, very long way from the mountain, so the ring’s power was much weaker.
Or, in contrast, Boromir was corrupted in that time period *without *carrying the ringbearer.
It’s explicitly stated that the ring calls to the Nazgul, and that if Sauron knows where to concentrate, he can locate the ring immediately. The goings on in Moria also indicate that other creatures such as the Watcher and probably orcs also know to target the ringbearer, either instinctively or through Sauron’s will.
It’s only by forcing Sauron to scour the whole planet *and *distracting him with an army that the ring manages to remain hidden… barely.
Added to that, it’s demonstrated several times that both Sauron on the wraiths are able to command the ringbearer to put the ring on if they can locate him. Once he is wearing the ring he stands out like a beacon and the ring takes control of him much easier.
The plan simply won’t work. As soon as Sauron and the wraiths can focus on a small area/number of targets the ring will stand out like beacon. That’s why they had to rely on stealth and keep the ring secret.
The wraiths won’t bother pursuing decoys any more than they did at the flight to the ford. They will home in on the ringbearer solely and exclusively.
We have no idea. It’s not a plot point in the novel because the heroes are not flying, but we have no idea what options he has available. He may have thousands of the flying lizards for all we know.
Even Gandalf the White couldn’t casually take on a wraith when Sauron’s will was concentrated on them. And you better believe that when they are that close to destroying the ring, Sauron is concentrating on them.
I hate it when people call “cite”, but do you happen to have a cite (even a rough area in the trilogy where it occurs) for the ring calling to the Nazgul? If so, my entire argument collapses and I’ll concede this point.
Frodo and Sam are hiding in the shadows near the gates to Minas Morgul. The chief Ringwraith rides out at the head of the army that is about to besiege Minas Tirith. But he pauses for a while, looking about him, as if he smells the proximity of the ring. Then he shrugs and gets on with his orders.
ETA: this doesn’t actually prove anything. He might have sensed the ring… Or he might have been trying to remember if he’d fed the cat.
“They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast shadows in their minds, which only the noon sun destroys, and in the dark they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are most to be feared. And at all times they smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it. Senses, too, there are other than sight or smell. We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we came here and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly. Also, the Ring draws them.”
Aragorn, 3018, “Fellowship of the Ring”
The ability to sense the ring apparently varies with distance, but every time they get close to the ring, they can sense its presence. There is the event in the Morgul Vale, the events during the flight to the ford and the event as the Hobbits are leaving the Shire where the Nazgul are able to sense the ring even when they can’t see the wearer. And whenever they do, the bearer feels an overwhelming urge to put the ring on, which makes him stand out like a beacon.
We also see by events at the breaking of the Fellowship that Sauron can also force the bearer to put the ring on and reveal himself if he is able to locate him even approximately. Inside the borders of Mordor with all the will of Sauron fixed on him, the ring would remain hidden for about 3 seconds.
This was also pointed out in the novel. The only slim chance of success was stealth and secrecy. If Sauron suspected for even a moment that someone was trying to get the ring into Mordor, he would find them without fail. The plan relied entirely on Sauron never even thinking of searching for the ring inside Mordor.
Sir, I humbly admit that my argument has completely disintegrated under the unstoppable force of your cite and logical reasoning. I concede the point and salute you. <o
I might also add that the invisibility power of the rings operates by putting the wearer into the spirit world. This makes them stand out and become, in the words of the book, “horribly and uniquely visible” to Sauron and the wraiths, who already exist in that world.
Trying to sneak into Mordor using an invisibility ring would be like trying to sneak into the Pentagon wearing hi-vis clothing.
As servants of Manwe the eagles are no more likely to hand denizens an easy victory over Sauron by providing a taxi service to Mount Doom than the hosts of the Vanyar are to cross the sea led by Tulkas and Orome themselves to re-run the War of Wrath.
I think the Council does not consider the eagles for the same reason they do not consider Gandalf or Elrond–the ring is too big of a danger to the great and powerful. As the ring gets closer to Mt. Doom it becomes more difficult to resist and powerful beings like Gandalf, Elrond, and the eagles would succumb.
And I will add to THAT the fact that, iin Tolkien, there is no invisibility enchantment that is safe for mortals to use. The One Ring’s invisibility power was a bug, not a feature. Sauron had no need of it when he forged it, ad becoming discorporate was among his natural abilities as a Maia. And of course he never intended it to fall into anyone else’s hands. The One worked in no small part by strengthening t one’s connection to the spirit world. For Maiar and for Elves who had seen the Two Trees this was not dangerous, but for Men and Hobbits (read: humans) it was unnatural and highly dangerous.
Blake is right. Recall that when Frodo tried to conceal himself from the Nazgul using the One, not only were they not stymied, but they became more aware of him, not less.
I have no idea what the number is, but they are not one of the Five Armies - the Wargs are, along with the goblins, elves, dwarves and men. How big is an army? Dain brought five hundred dwarves, and it’s hard to believe Lake-Town could have fielded a larger number.
Wargs/Goblins are one army–wargs shouldn’t count any more than horses do. Men are another. Dwarfs are the third. Elves are the fourth. And eagles are the fifth.
As to the number of Eagles; right after the Eagles save Bilbo and Company from the Wargs before Beorn, there’s a weirdly twee scene where the King Eagle is described as wearing a crown and that the King Eagle brought his 15 chieftains all of whom wore gold necklaces. You can’t be a chieftain without a tribe underneath you, so 15x20(?) is 300, minimum.
As is typical, this discussion is primarily circling around the question of whether the eagles could score an easy win for the good guys by taking the ring straight to Mt. Doom. I would submit that this is irrelevant.
The eagles are servants of Manwe. They serve him directly. They will score the easy victory (if we assume they are capable of doing so) if and only if Manwe wishes to bestow that easy victory upon Middle Earth. But we know what Manwe and the other Valar have decided to do to counter the threat of Sauron, and it is leagues away from gifting an easy victory to the good guys. The Valar have at their disposal the vast hosts of high elves who defeated Morgoth’s stronghold at Angband of which Barad-dur is but a pale imitation. Where Morgoth was a match for the Valar themselves, Sauron is but a Maiar, albeit one of the most powerful. The Valar could have decided to sail east with 100,000 high elves and a selection of the more warlike Maiar and Valar, and crush Sauron utterly.
What did they decide? They decided to send the Istari, five Maiar stripped of most of their power. Not five of the strongest, most warlike of the Maiar sent in their full power, who would then have easily inspired the free peoples of Middle Earth to join together to form a unified army capable of matching Sauron’s, and who could have handled Sauron and his chief lieutenants themselves - no, five not particularly powerful Maiar diminished to little more then men, with some minor magic capabilities and substantial wisdom, who are to inspire the free people of Middle Earth to defeat Sauron on their own.
That is the help that Middle Earth gets. If that’s the sort of help that Manwe is willing to send, then why the heck would he allow his servants the eagles to provide an easy magic shortcut to destroying the Ring? Whether the eagles are capable of providing that shortcut is irrelevant.
