re: Gandalf and Isengard: Actually, PJ is right on this one. You’re trying to pronounce them as if they were Elvish, but they’re not. The name Gandalf is Westron and Isengard is, IIRC, Rohirric, so they should be pronounced as if they were English words.
Would it be horribly geeky of me to say that the linguistics appendix is one of my favorite parts of LoTR? I love the Sindarin language. (Love the way Gandalf rolls his R’s in the movie, too.) But I have trouble figuring out where the stress falls in certain words. Maybe someone can help me out with these:
–Imladris
–Glorfindel
–Earendil
–Fingolfin
You’re right, and I’m glad. Ee-sen-gard sounds so wrong.
Appendix E says Eldarin languages stress “the last syllable but one” when it contains a vowel followed by two consonants, which would include all the names you asked about – wouldn’t it?
Just so we understand each other, in my attempts, the ampersand (&) is pronounced as though it were a schwa, that little upside-down lower case e I encountered in my spelling books and dictionaries in grade school.
Not an issue, going by Tolkien’s examples: “isIldur… silIvren..” If two consonants follow the vowel in the penultimate syllable, it gets the stress, with exceptions for dh, th and ch, which represent single consonants in the “orginal” script.
Ergo,
Im - LA - dris
Glor - FIN - del
E - ar - EN - dil
Fin - GOL - fin
Gahn - dalv
Gohn - dor
I’d like to switch sides on that issue again, if I may, and say that Gandalf is supposed to be pronounced this way. Following his explanation of Elvish pronunciation Tolkien writes, “In names drawn from other languages than Eldarin the same values are intended.” He then lists several exceptions, none of which would seem to apply to Gandalf, so for the moment I’d say pronounce the f like a v. This would be closer to the original Icelandic, anyway.
And, as much as it pains me, I now have to support EE-sen-gard, since i has the ee sound in Elvish AND Old English, from which the word isen (iron) derives.
Tolkien’s introduction to the section on pronunciation takes on an ironic tone in light of the amount of discussion and controversy surrounding the subject: “The following points may be observed by those who are interested in such details.”
TWDuke, thanks for catching my back on the Gahn - dalv reasoning. I will gladly accept correction and instruction on Eh - ar - EN - dil, and even on Im - LA - dris, if necessary, although, to my ear, it screws up the scansion in the staves of Faramir’s (and Boromir’s) dream (Seek for the sword that was broken. . . ).
IMHO, the pronunciations used in the movies are pretty much a match to those used in the Audio book versions produced by Recorded Books and narrated by Rob Inglis. A great listen, by the way.
But don’t take my word for it. I must admit that I find it grating as I grow up to find out how many words I mispronounced. For example, I loved playing Kid EYE-CAR-US on my Nintendo.
I think that’s the main reason I’ve been listening to the DVD commentaries; the New Zealand accent has always been a weird turn-on for me. Whenever they go on about how such and such a scene is just a “slight depatcha” from the original, it gives me the chills.
