LOTR: The Two Towers Question (Open Spoilers)

Weren’t a huge percent of the population wiped out in Moria?

They were busy getting invaded by the goblins.

I always assumed Sauron had other client armies on the field, to keep the Elves of Lorien, Mirkwood, and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills and Lonely Mountain busy.

The elves showing up at Helms Deep to help fight was a movie-only addition. In the books, it was strictly the men of Rohan (along with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli) at Helm’s Deep.

The fall of Moria was ancient history, and many dwarves escaped it (or didn’t live there in the first place). The later Battle of Dimrill Dale, in which Thorin earned the name Oakenshield, certainly accounted for a lot of dwarves, and their numbers regrew slowly owing to having a large sex imbalance and, apparently, not a very strong desire to breed. The more recent events in Moria, the debris from which the Fellowship ran across, accounted for only a small colony, not the bulk of the dwarven population. But the dwarven population had been in steady decline since ages before.

I can’t add to the wonderful descriptions of the lore involved, but I do have to say that LOL’ed at work over that line. :smiley:

I wonder if he re-specced or just got his rotation straightened out…

Hi Oakminster - To your last question, in the books it is more clear that war has spread over a large area of Middle Earth. Elves were busy fighting near Lorien and up North near the Misty Mountains. In the northern battles the dwarves were engaged also.

Ahhh. I was thinking maybe the dwarves figured Gimli already had the orcs out numbered, what with only 10,000 against a sturdy dwarf. :smiley:

I like your humor Oakminster. Have you seen Return of the King yet? If not, please report back when you do.

Yup. watched that last night. Another whole lotta movie, but entertaining.

Strider went back to the hot chick with the pointy ears, instead of the equally hot Rowan Redhead. Gotta say Jackson greatly exaggerated the power of seige engines in the 2nd to last “Mother of All Battles”. One hit causing stone towers to explode/crumble? Musta used goblin engineers to build the things outta cardboard. Of course, he also seems to use magical disappearing horses in the last “Mother of All Battles”. And he’s got a ranger swinging a two-handed sword. Everybody knows melee rangers dual wield…and die early and often.

Still say Gandalf needed at least another semester of mage school. Yeah, continual light looks good, but he really shoulda learned fireball, lightning bolt, stinking cloud, and magic missile.

I’m sure you know Gandalf predates all those D&D wizards, so why should he use their spells

Because otherwise, he’s a cheerleader in cloth armor, with 4-sided hit dice. Does have a nifty staff and sword, though.

… and that’s all he was supposed to be. His instructions were to be a “cheerleader”, not a “lay-to-waster”. Doesn’t mean he didn’t know how to do that stuff, just that he refrained, staying true to his calling. The main thing he had giong for him against Sauron, et al, is that they didn’t believe that he wouldn’t go all fireball at any given moment, since it didn’t occur to them that someone would have a power and not use it. So Sauron thought him weak or overly cautious, not principled – but still had enough doubts about his power that he wouldn’t test him directly too much without the Ring to be sure. In the end, Gandalf’s team won without him having to go all D&D on the battlefield, so who are we to Monday-morning quarterback?

Of course, he did have a few thousand years to practice his swordplay …

Well, you have to understand who Gandalf really is … .

He’s basically an incarnated angel. He was around at the beginning, back when Eru, the “God” of Middle-Earth, created the whole shebang out of nothing.

He and the other wizards (Saruman, and three others that aren’t mentioned in the movies) were sent to Middle-Earth in human form to nudge things in the right direction at key moments. But in order to walk as men they had set aside the bulk of their powers and even most of their awareness of their true nature. Intellectually Gandalf “knows” he’s an incarnated angel, but he doesn’t have access to his memories of what he was before he took human form.

Part of his mission is to use as little power as possible to help things along. The fight against Sauron is a fight that the men and elves and dwarves and hobbits have to win for themselves. So, yeah, he mostly is just a cheerleader – although he is occasionally allowed to turn up the dial if it’s an emergency.

How many people died because Mr. Candyass Wizard Wannabe was “restrained”? Worse than that, he ninja looted that dark crystal ball thing. Harrumph.

Yes, but how many people died because Saruman tried a more direct form of intervention – damned if you do and damned if you don’t if you ask me.

As for the dark crystal ball thing – no ninja looting – Some dude threw it at him from three stories up!! And then he voluntarily gave it back to its rightful owner without even using it.

I do agree that a Wizard from the Land Before Time should have a better lock-and-key system than simply rolling it up in a blanket, especially with that pipsqueak, nosy Gilligan-hobbit roaming around. That’s no better than the guy on the beach that shoves his wallet way up towards the front of his shoes while swimming – “No one will think to look there!!!” ($1 to Seinfeld).

What makes you think Gandalf has no access to memories of his years as Olorin in the West? He even specifically tells at least one person that he was known as Olorin in the undying lands.

I meant his memories from during the song of Iluvator. If he could remember everything he would know the future in advance.

Another correction: Radagast the Brown, another wizard, was mentioned in passing by Saruman in the movies. Although he didn’t appear on screen, Weta did an image for the Decipher collectible card game: http://www.tuckborough.net/images/radagast.jpg

Not quite true. There were two (count 'em) elves arriving with the Northern Rangers – Elladan and Elrohir, Elrond’s sons. This prompted Gimli to say (paraphrasing) “Geez, I shoulda sent off for some of my relatives,” to which Legolas replied, “I as well, but they’e probably very busy anyway.” They and the Rangers accompanied Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli on the Paths of the Dead.