This, also, is incorrect. The “song” does not say what will be. It is a representation of what will be. The Vala certainly remember the song; their attempts in Arda are an effort to recreate the song in real terms. It’s just that you cannot always know exactly what a particular theme or motif will translate to in the real creation, nor can you know exactly what time things will happen. Thus, despite knowing from the song that the Children of Illuvatar would be created, they didn’t know for sure when that would happen, which allowed Melkor to get to the humans (and possibly the elves) first.
He did get to the elves first (though not necessarily in the sense of kidnapping and twisting them into orcs (that’s always going to be a really nebulous “truth”, I think)), because he had the Dark Rider costume going in the best Primeval Scooby Doo tradition, trying to make them fear and distrust Oromë when he eventually did find them. That was probably part of the motivation of the Avari who stayed behind…distrust of Oromë and the Valar because of Melkor’s Dark Rider antics.
I’m sometimes amazed at the people who seem to look at a work of fiction or drama, especially one with LOTS of backstory, and only appear able to skim over the surface.
sqweels, you are aware that we KNOW that LOTR isn’t real, right? That the events didn’t happen? Because we DO know that…but playing “the game” is fun.
Crap. You’re right; damn movie’s clouded my memory of the book. Right after Gandalf and Pippin leave for Gondor the troop of Rohirrim are making their way back from Isengard when a group of horsemen come upon them from behind in the dark and they are challenged by Éomer . . .
Later . . .
The part I was remembering was in Hornburg just before the battle but I’ll not quote it here lest I get into trouble.
In the book Faramir is also portrayed as far more noble from the onset. He releases the hobbits after he guesses their burden, though tempted, and doesn’t drag them to Osgiliath which, aside from the fact that geographically this fabrication makes no sense and would have screwed up all the timing it’s particularly infuriating because of the scene where Frodo shows the ring to the Captain of the Nazgul. This is the exact same thing as showing the ring to Sauron. All the Nazgul would have been brought to bear to take the ring right then and the whole idea of Sauron believing the ring is in Minas Tirith is blown. It was a stupid, stupid change from the book. As stupid as making Frodo turn on Sam and the whole Warg attack with Aragorn falling off the cliff.
Nicely done! You’re thinking of the talk just before the orcs fill the valley. They’re wishing for 100 dwarves or elves but agree that war likely marches on their own homes.
Oh, hell, yes. (Apart from the bit about guessing - Sam blurts it out carelessly; Faramir earlier guessed there was something in the wind but wasn’t sure what.) Jackson did some great work, and the movies could have been infinitely worse, but he did take liberties.
I thought it was more like a slip after being plied with good country food, in pleasant company and with conversation on his favourite subjects like elves, Lothlorien and Galadriel.
Specifically, as soon as Faramir realized it was Sauron’s Ring they were talking about, he said “Okay, don’t show me, don’t even mention it again in case it turns out I’m weaker than you - let’s set you on your way and give the nasty thing no chance to work its mischief”. Faramir was humble enough to know he shouldn’t even try to test his resolve.
At the end of TTT, why did Faramir say “At last, we understand one another, Frodo”. Okay, I get that he figured the ring was bad and needed to be destroyed. And Frodo must do it, without any help from his soldiers. How he got that watching Frodo nearly give the ring to the Nazgul isn’t explained. But that’s not really my question.
Why does he think Frodo understands him? What insight did Frodo see about how Faramir needed to impress his Dad?