I always thought that Tom’s "derry dol"s and "ring a ding dillo"s were supposed to be nonsensical, meant to show Tom’s silliness and that the world wasn’t all dark and scary and full of evil things.
Then on a recent re-reading this line caught my eye and made me wonder:
So is there anything in Tolkiens letters or writing to indicate that he’d made up Tom Bombadil’s language and given it a history like he did the others? Is there a primer on all these merry dols and what they mean?
Tom does indicate, especially in the Barrow Downs and when he takes the hobbits close to the great road near Bree, that he knows much that has been lost. He seemed to know a great deal about that golden brooch that he picked out of the barrow to take to Goldberry “Fair was she that long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry will wear it now, and we will not forget her!”.
JRRT most likely had no idea what Bombadil was saying, either. The good professor went on record as saying he didn’t know where TB came from or what he represented in the mythology.
Apparently Bombadil was the name given to some sort of toy doll that the Tolkien kids enjoyed, and JRRT often had it tell stories and perform songs to them.
Does this imply that he knew who specifically wore it, and knew that she was fair? Or is it just that, to Bombadil, everything (and everyone) in the world is beautiful, and thus he’s confident that the previous owner was fair, even without knowing who she was?
I’m not asking anything about Tom himself, although Qadgop the Mercotan’s link is very interesting.
I want to know if Tom Bombadil’s speech and the words and phrases he uses is supposed to be a part of some ancient language (perhaps from some of the first men to settle in Middle Earth) or something he just made up. I was trying to show that Tom made some comments to the hobbits that indicated that he was very old, and told them some ancient stories, and even says “I was here in the beginning”. So it seems plausible that his speech is the last remant of some of the first men on ME, since his memory goes so far back. I was wondering if Tolkien ever said anything about Tom’s speech itself that could indicate whether this theory is correct and there was once a whole country that spoke in Derry Dol and Ring a dollo’s. I find that image very amusing.
I’ve found no references to TB’s language, not even in the Ardalambion (one of the best sources for all things linguistic related to JRRT.)
And TB would have been speaking even before the men arose for the first time, after the first rising of the sun in the West. And since JRRT did write about how it was the Avari that taught the first men to speak, I don’t think TB’s language (which would have pre-dated the elves also) would have been related to early Mannish.
Very informative links Qadgop…
So it looks like Tolkien didn’t give any other hints to where Tom picked up his strange language.
ok, a couple (or three) more Lotr questions:
When Tom Bombadil is escorting the hobbits back to the great road they can see some ancient outlines, and Tom mentions that it was once the borders of an ancient kingdom, but doesn’t want to talk about it. What (and whose) kingdom was this?
Also, who exactly is buried in the Barrow-Downs? The Cardolan prince?
I was reading through some of the appendices and trying to track all the locations on my map to get a feel for the story. One place that kept popping up was Umbar, but I couldn’t find it on the map. Obviously the name has changed. So where was Umbar and what is it called now? Similar question about Gondolin.
Cardolan, which was formerly part of Arnor, the Numenorean realm in the north. Elendil was king of Arnor, and high king over Arnor and Gondor, back in the day. After his fall, Isildur assumed the title of high king over Arnor and Gondor, but after his death, Arnor was ruled by the descendants of Isildur, while Gondor was ruled by the descendants of his brother, Anarion. Eventually, there was a squabble over succession in Arnor, and the kingdom split into 3 smaller kingdoms, Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan.
Gondolin was in Beleriand, most of which fell beneath the waves back in the 1st age. So the maps of ME in the 3rd age won’t be showing it. Here’s a map of northern Beleriand with Gondor on it, southwest of Dorthonion, southeast of Mithrim. The Blue mountains on the far right of the map are the location of the 3rd age’s Grey Havens, which is where Frodo and Bilbo sailed into the West from at the end of ROTK. Hope that helps.
Yeah, that’s one of the neat things about the Middle Earth books: the author cared about imaginary implied details as much as any obsessed fan. (But JRRT’s religious convictions make his literary obsession non-skeevy, because it’s apparent the wankery isn’t the primary focus of his life.)
