So I just read through this whole thread for the first time (reached it through a cross-link or two), and although its over two years old, there were some points I figured I’d throw in that in themselves are over two years old as well (and were suprisingly not mentioned, since one involves the California legislation and the other involves the Methodist Church).
I’m also interested in finding out (since most of the posters in this thread are still around), if people feel anything has changed with the overall situation of Christianity and its overall view towards gays.
I apologize if anyone feels this thread has already beaten the proverbial deceased horse and doesn’t want to discuss the matter any further, but then just ignore it and it will be submerged into the archives of obscurity within short time anyway.
So without further ado…
Your last two sentences leave out the whole picture and ,as a result, add unfair bias to your argument. While what you say is essentially true, you have made a statement that falls under the umbrella of the third kind of lie (the first being lies; the second being damned lies). I doubt you did this intentionally, most likely you were unaware of or forgot about the religious groups in California that were opposed to the referendum, since they probably received considerably less press. (Which actually brings me to a side question, no doubt the gay population was incensed at the actions of the LDS and Catholics, but did any of them actively publicize the groups that did support them in this? Gays share some responsibility in publicizing the religious groups that do support them, if they want other religious groups to realize that antigay positions have less support than many people would like to believe. In case you’re wondering, the Jews, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Methodists all opposed the referendum officially.
Then there’s the case of Californians Jeanne Barnett and Ellie Charlton. 67 Methodist pastors officially blessed this lesbian union. The regional conference for Nevada and California decided not to punish the clergy.
Then there’s the case of Reverand Gregory Dell of the Broadway United Methodist Church in Chicago, Illinois. This case is of particular interest to myself, because the Methodist church I belong to supported Dell. I grew up a relatively liberal Baptist home (liberal for Baptists). I converted to Methodism mainly because of my Fiancee at the time (now wife), who was Methodist. (In my opinion, there are just as many differences within protestant denominations from church to church, as there are between the denominations themselves. I believe that the community of the church is more important than the actual denomination, so converting to Methodism wasn’t that big of a deal for me.) My now mother-in-law is assistant pastor at the church, which is located in Evanston, and my father-in-law is a professor at the Methodist seminary, so conversion was pretty easy. (I really could care less about the liturgical aspect of Methodism, I converted due to family, community, and politics.) Since moving out to Hoffman Estates, in late 2000, my wife and I stopped attending the church due to distance, but our membership is still active there.
Dell has been in the news for a while now (and still pops up occasionally even today). In a story that made national news (and even got old Freddy Phelps pants in such a wad that he brought his group up to Chicago to picket Broadway), on Sept. 19, 1998, Dell performed a gay union ceremony for Keith Eccarius and Karl Reinhardt, two members of his Church. Dell was found guilty of Disobedience by the Methodist church and was suspended on July 3, 1999. Our church regularly sent a handful of parishoners in the spring of 1999 to the Sunday services of Broadway, as a sign of support. The suspension was originally to last until either Dell signed a statement confirming that he would adhere to the church law which forbade performance of the gay union ceremonies, or the law itself was overturned. The suspension was eventually changed to only one year. In January of 2001, Broadway took a vote to determine what their future would be. They would either leave the denomination entirely, join with the UCC (United Church of Christ), openly defy the United Methodist Church, or remain members of the Methodist Church, but work within it to change its policies. The final decision was the last one (by a margin of one vote), the other favored option was joining the UCC. Dell still continues to perform gay unions and has discovered a loophole in the law that allows him to do so without actually violating the Methodist law. This at least keeps the heat off of him while people work to overturn it.
