I have noticed many people in these threads speaking of the narrow-mindedness of “fundamental Christians” and it has me somewhat puzzled. I never see anyone talking about the narrowmindedness of militent homosexuals, or athiests who consider a Christian to be nothing more than a bigotted, anal moron. Is it any better for someone to say that a “fundamental Christian” has no right to speak his or her mind than for someone to say that a homosexual should convert? After all, BOTH feel they are in the right. Just a little question of “superior” attitudes. I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone and, if this offends you, too bad. It’s an honest query.
I haven’t seen anyone, here or on Great Debates, saying that a Fundamentalist Christian has “no right” to speak his or her mind. It’s just that the non-Fundamentalist-Christian posters also have the right to say that they think a particular Fundamentalist Christian’s post is narrow-minded, intolerant, or just plain dumb.
Incidentally, when the Oregon Citizen’s Alliance (a primarily Fundamentalist Christian organization) put Measure 9 on the Oregon ballot in 1992, they touted it as merely taking away “special rights” from homosexuals, when in reality it would have required the public schools to teach that homosexuality is wrong. Several concerned dissenters, homosexual and heterosexual alike, were later seen wearing T-shirts that read “No special rights for Christians.”
[sub]great debates great debates great debates[/sub]
I seldom see, at any of the forums or in any threads, atheists or homosexuals telling other people that their lifestyles are evil, or that there is only one true way to live. That key word, one, is what is narrow-minded about some fundamentalist Christians.
The difference, PillEater, is that homosexuals don’t decry all Christians as being vile, family destroying pedophiles. They aren’t interested in arresting Christians for going to church, praying to God, or otherwise carrying out their spiritual beliefs. They aren’t interested in refusing humanitarian civil rights to Christians - rights like getting married, adopting children, holding down jobs, or having a say in their loved one’s medical treatment.
Now, not all Christians say or want those things in regard to homosexuals. As a matter of fact, the Christians I’ve met who have struck me as being the most genuinely Christian don’t give one green apple as to what homosexuals are doing. However, there is a large population of people who describe themselves as Christians, especially “fundamentalist” Christians, and keep themselves busy with just such things.
It’s little wonder to me that they are frequently and vociferously attacked on this board.
Seen on a T-shirt worn by a young man in a heavily gay area of San Diego:
Jesus hates me
this I know
because the Christians tell me so
Yes, this is a extreme example but how sad that anyone can read the Gospel’s message of love, accecptance of those outside of society’s norms and still be filled with such venom. One would think if Jesus had such a problem with it he’d have gotten atround to saying something directly on point. Not like him to be forgetful…
I think the “narrow mindedness” tag applied to Christian fundementalists et al flows directly from the rigid, literal view of the Bible and intolerance for those that believe different interpretations. Bumper stickers in Denver: “God wrote it, I believe it, that’s all there is to it” and my favorite, “Teach Intolerance.”
On a more personal note, I can agree to disagree with others who have different beliefs than I do without having my world view as “God’s chosen one and only on the path of rightousness” threatened. My faith is deep and secure regardless of what others might believe about my personal sinfulness or deviate nature.
Aren’t fundamentalist Christian supposed to be narrow-minded? They believe that there is only correct way to live. Marry, have kids within marriage, and go to church. To live outside those bounds is wrong. As far as I know, that qualifies as a narrow-mindedness, in the strict sense of the word.
Or am I mistaken?
Personally, I prefer to take it on an individual basis and not paint with a broad brush all fundamentalists. There are quite a few devotely religious individuals who I admire, even if we disagree on certain key issues.
However, you should know that it’s not an uncommon phenomena to run into very vocal fundamentalists who frequent message boards who come across as hate-filled more than Christ-filled. So you have to understand that there is some “bad press” for every fundamentalist to overcome when first arriving at a board.
So, I support your right to say that homosexuals to convert. Just know that I will vigourously disagree with you. If that makes me a “militent”[sic] in your opinion, so be it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by beakerxf *
**
Perhaps that’s just their ‘lifestyle-choice’ and we should respect that. Oh, wait.
Two sides of the same coin, folks. Gays are straight, athiests are Christians, fundies are liberals, and so on and so forth. Two sides of the same coin. Just that no one wants to admit it.
I think Suck.com put it best when they said that special interest groups don’t really care so much about special interests, as they do about being in complete control of every aspect of your life.
It’s rare to find a person that preaches tolerance that also exemplifies it.
Don’t take this as a personal attack, Beaker, truly it’s not. I just get so tired of the same old rhetoric from both sides. Why don’t they just give each other a collective handjob and admit how alike they all are?
–Tim
How was that disrespectful? I was pointing out the semantics. If he had called homosexuals “deviants” I would have pointed out the semantics of that too. The insult relies more on the receiver’s perception than the actual verbage.
I won’t take it as a personal attack, but you have to realize that you responded to one of the people who actually agrees with you. I’m tired of rhetoric and snarky exchanges passing off as debates. If PillEater started a thread topic about reparative therapy, I’d try to research it and debate him with facts. I’m also tired of people jumping on folks like Wildest Bill, who seems like a nice enough guy, just for being conservative.
I was trying to say, in my clumsy way, that I would be respectful of PillEater, but letting him know that respect isn’t the same thing as agreeing with him. If in the end he stll chooses to see me as a “militant” then the problem would be his, not mine.
I myself am a Catholic and I haven’t had anyone bashing ME!
Danielinthewolvesden, is that you?
beaker: I was just teasing with the ‘lifestyle choice’ comment. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. Here’s a
I thought perhaps you’d take the rest as a jab, so I added the disclaimer at the bottom.
No harm intended.
–Tim
*sigh
Is it a possiblity that we could all just get along as the Human race? Or do I just have my head too far up in the clouds?
No harm taken. I realized that, without hearing my tone of voice, my first post could sound pissy and sarcastic. So if you had taken issue with it, it would have been understandable.
Glad we cleared that up.
I think that the narrow-mindedness criticism leveled at FC’s stems from their refusal to accept proven, demonstratable scientific fact that is in conflict with their belief system instead chosing to ‘have faith’ and factual truth be damned.
I find it interesting that a gay person becomes a militant homosexual for standing up for their rights. It is much like a woman who refuses to be a doormat and then is called a feminazi or a hairy legged feminist.
I’ve never seen gay people or feminists going door-to-door to convert people, but I’ve seen a SLEW of Xians going around proseletyzing. I’ve also encountered the most disrespect from Xians. If they want to feel less oppressed, perhaps they should stop oppressing others first.
I can’t believe the OP is serious. Homosexuals do not attack anyone unprovoked. It is the fundies that are attacking us. “Love the sinner, hate the sin” is not about love, it is about hate and it is an attack. Then, when we fight back, the fundies try to play the victims. Sorry, but that shit doesn’t fly even if you put pretty wings and a halo on it. If you say my lifestyle (whatever the hell a lifestyle is) is wrong, you are attacking me. Fundies have the mistaken impression that homosexuals recruit and that they can change. This is a lie.
Both are wrong. You are comparing apples to apples. I will argue with the person who says either.
I deny no one the right to speak. I hear what they have to say. They are full of lies and hate. By allowing them to spew forth their hateful bile, they can be exposed for what they are. By all means, let them speak. But, call them on their lies and do not allow them to play victims when they are on the attack.
I am also an athiest. I wouldn’t say that a Christian is “nothing more than a bigotted, anal moron”. Christianity has not cornered the market in bigotted, anal morons. As for myself, I don’t care if you are Christian or not.
I realize I am painting Christian fundamentalists with a broad brush here and that what I have said about them here does not apply to all. There are some posters that are fundimentalists on this board that I rather like.
My first answer to you was “No” and “Yes”. But I think things are getting better. I look forward to the day when we can all get along.
“gay people going door to door”.
Just struck me as funny.
“Hi, I’m Ralph, and I’d like to take a few minutes to tell you about this Fabulous lifestyle…”
hee hee
I asked on another thread how many Christian sects there were. No answer so far (so I’ll probably start a thread to find out).
But one important difference from gays is that some Christians sects hate other Christians…
Obviously, some respondents feel that I am attacking the homosexual lifestyle. I am not. Although I don’t agree with it, and consider it to be a sin, I also consider lying to be a sin, and stealing to be a sin. In fact, a major factor of Christianity is to show that EVERYONE sins and…well, I don’t want to be thought of as prosetylizing, so I’ll stop at that.
Although they are in the minority, there IS such a thing as militant homosexual groups, one(group)of which, in Madison WI, rioted against a church, storming in and defacating on the altar, and causing many thousands of dollars in damage.
Just as I am opposed to bombing abortion clinics in the name of saving the unborn, or assaulting someone because he or she is a homosexual, I am opposed to any group who would defame a church. To me, violence in the name of Christ is just as offensive as violence against Christians.
As an American, I am reminded of Frank Lorenzo, neighbor of Archie Bunker, who said,"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defenc with my life, your right to say it.