Low Jet flyby video. Real or fake?

I’m going to guess again that this is fake based on a segment I saw on the TV show “Dogfights” last night. One of the stories they told was of a f-86 Sabre chasing a Mig-15 at very low altitude above a dry riverbed. The Mig’s exhaust kicked up large rocks from the ground that hit the Sabre. The pilot was quoted as saying his plane was pretty beat up.

So even if the runway guy had the confidence not to flinch, would he have the strength not to be severely buffeted?

And I do stand by my opinion that the plane was actually as low as it looked, if indeed the video is real. If you look at the shadows of the man and the plane, they are very close to overlapping.

But in the Sabre chasing Mig scenario the Mig would have been at full throttle while in this video the jet could be throttled back and coasting along.

Yes, that is possible, but it doesn’t look like it’s coasting, and it probably has several times the power of the Sabre.

It could pretty very be coasting just above stall speed with minimum throttle, which I think would limit the downwash. Max power output doesn’t play in.

My vote is that this is a French Mirage F1, probably deployed in Dakar or one of the other French deployments in North Africa. And I believe this reel is real, because compositing the image is probably more trouble than filming it.

Well, sure, just like it would be easier just to shoot someone in the head for a movie scene than do all that special effects stuff to fake it. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t think so. For one, flying very slowly actually creates a lot of drag and requires a lot of power to overcome. Minimum drag and therefore minimum power required happens about 30% above the stall speed, this is still pretty slow and it would be obvious because the aircraft would have a high nose attitude. It looks more like it’s getting along fairly quickly, that’s not to say it has a high power setting though, if it has just come out of even a shallow dive its power requirements to maintain a high speed might not be very much.

This video has some low slow passes by a Mirage F1, note the different attitude with the slow pass and the amount of dust kicked up by the exhaust. In a high speed pass, the nose is lower and the exhaust doesn’t kick up as much shit from the ground.

Ignorance fought =)

…let’s put this one to bed, as far as possible.

1. Aircraft Type

This is a Mirage F.1, there’s no doubt about that. And probably FAF too, since the fit matches one that they would use for training.

Exhibit A - ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs. This is a picture of a FAF Mirage F.1 with some distinguishing features marked. Note the centreline fuel tank, AAR probe, etc. This aircraft has stores installed on pylons 2 and a futher rail installed on pylons 3, probably for drop tanks or some larger weapon. Only pylon 3 is of interest to us.

Exhibit B - ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs. A close-up of the AAR installation on F.1s. Note the height of the probe (almost above the canopy) and the slight cant to one side.

Exhibit C - ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs. A nose-on schematic of the F.1. The top one is the original, the bottom one has been doctored by me to indicate the fit of the aircraft in the video (centerline tank, rails on pylon 3, AAR probe. The colour coding remains the same as in the first image. Notice also the TACAN/VOR aerials, in blue; distinctive at the top of the fin.

Exhibit D - ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs. This is a still from the video. It’s a bit blurred and the aircraft is spread over two frames (this was explained well earlier). But note the same identifying features, including the colour coded items.

All this, in my view, makes it an F.1. The low horizontal stabiliser when compared with the high wing. The slight wing anhedral. The intakes. Centreline drop tank, no stores, rails on pylons 3 (for drop tanks in a different fit). The TACAN/VOR receiver is clearly visible, as is the canted AAR probe. The ventral strakes less so in this particular frame, but watch the whole video and they are there.
2. Is it a French Air Force guy on the ground?

Not easy to say for definite, but the French are the only Mirage F.1-operating Air Force I’ve ever come across that have their guys wear berets on the flightline. That’s not to say there aren’t others, but most wear ear defenders only.

3. Where is the wake? Why doesn’t he get blown over?

Two reasons.

Firstly, wake vortices are normally generated by the wingtips. Once they are made, they move away from and underneath the aircraft flight path. They also grow in size with time. Eventually they will grow so big that there might encompass the original flight path, but it is not immediate.

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDpyoghjZgE) shows wake vortices in action. Especially the bit a 0:42, where the aircraft has not yet touched down. The area immediately below/behind the aircraft are clear. Later in the video the blowing snow is as much due to propwash.

If the guy in the video was underneath the aircraft as it passed overhead, he’s unlikely to get hit by a wingtip vortex immediately.

Also, as was rightly pointed out earlier, wingtip vortices are a produced of induced lift. Induced lift is the lift created by flying slowly, when a high angle-of-attack is required to produce the necessary lift. At high speed, the same lift is created at a much lower angle-of-attack and the induced drag is much, much less. (At high speeds, profile drag is more significant).

Since the aircraft in the video is not in a particularly low-speed phase of flight (e.g. approach and landing) then the wingtip vortices would be much smaller.

But what about the jet efflux?

Well, again as noted before, whilst the aircraft is not in a low-speed regime, it’s not supersonic either. It is subsonic. There’s nothing to suggest that the pilot didn’t configure for the flypast by approaching at a high-power setting before reducing to low-power, or even idle, before passing overhead. The video sounds as if the jet is still generating some power but not necessarily a lot, therefore jet efflux could be quite minimal and no factor for the guy on the ground.

Lastly, the aircraft appears to be a lot lower than it actually is anyway; check out the span of the shadow on the ground. It’s higher than it looks.

4. So is it real?

Ok, I can’t say that. I don’t know what kind of video doctoring skills could have been used. But it could be true and I see no reason why anybody would have wanted to fake it… it’s not as if they’re famous as a result. The FAF are indeed low-flying specialists and have been known to do quite a lot of other crazy stuff like this; some of it on the internet, much of it not!

:wink:

Hello, welcome. I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt some of those low-flying passes. RAF fly around the hills here sometimes way below the few thousand feet that they are supposed to. Anyone who’s been up a not very high mountain in the Highlands has seen jets barrelling past far below.

I remember being on a boat on Loch Ness, around the time the first Gulf War was brewing up, and two Tornadoes went up the loch at really fucking zero feet, at insane speed, insanely low. Seriously 100ft or so and just subsonic. Around that time there were many reports of supersonic flights at tree level in more remote places.

Standard insertion altitude was well under 100’ AGL in GW1. Unfortunately the TFR was so sensitive it picked up every ripple, causing significant distress to the pilots. So they switched to ASL. This caused some camels to be cooked when they were sheltering on the wrong side of a dune.

Can you translate the tricky bits into English? Most of us aren’t ex-military chaps, so throw us a bone, eh?

Standard insertion was well under 100’ above Ground Level in Gulf War 1. Unfortunately the Terrain Following Radar was so sensitive it picked up every ripple, causing significant distress to the pilots. So they switched to Above Sea Level. This caused some camels to be cooked when they were sheltering on the wrong side of a dune.

I don’t doubt it can fly that low but looking at the shadow as it goes by compared to the height of the man it looks close enough that a shock wave of air would be evident with a dust cloud but the camera jostles so it’s hard to say.