LSD / Insanity

[Nzinga_Seated]

I am unsure if this question has a definite, documented answer. I tried to google the answer, but my google skills are weak. And I Snoped it with no luck.

My whole life, there has been an urban legend about LSD.

Basically, it went something like this.

We would all know someone in our neighborhood…not know them extremely well, but well enough. Then, all of a sudden, that person would begin to exhibit signs of schizophrenia.

It seems that every time this happened, the word went around, “MMM-hmm. Somebody done slipped something in Cory’s drink” Or, “I heard from my cousin that Jamey and Keisha were at this party, and Jamey slipped Keisha a micky, and she has been insane ever sense”

Now, I want to be clear. I know that it is impossible to go insane from someone slipping LSD in your drink. It makes intellectual sense to me that these people were succumbing to schizophrenia and some of the less educated in our neighborhood didn’t understand mental illness and assumed it must be ‘acid’.

But, *so many * highly educated, well respected people that I know are so sure that one dose of LSD in someone’s drink can drive them insane, that I am actually starting to doubt myself.

Is it true? Can slipping something in one’s drink cause them to go insane? If so, does anyone have any cites to support that?

If not, are there any cites anyone can reccomend to help me refute the claim.

One gentleman that I have debated this with is so smart and confident that I have to come with some real evidence to ever convince him he is wrong.

[Shagnasty]

I was once in a Ph.D. program in behavioral neuroscience and psychopharmacology. The idea is crap as the idea of flashbacks for the most part.

Here are some a relevant Snopes article:

Are You Deemed Legally Insane If You've Taken LSD Seven Times?

[Will_Repair]

@Nzinga

Is it true? Can slipping something in one’s drink cause them to go insane? If so, does anyone have any cites to support that?

See Tom Wolfe’s book The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test about Ken Kensey (writer of One Flew over the Cukoos Nest) and the Merry Pransters. Seems some people didn’t know the difference between Kool Aid and Electric Kool Aid at a party.

[Shagnasty]

According to my former psychopharmacology mentor, LSD is ridiculously safe as a drug in the short term at least on the body. The LD50 (dose that 50% of subjects die from it) is unknown and has to be many orders of magnitude over something that someone would take. We had a thread about eating a block of LSD once. I guess even a salt block would kill you.

Vastly more likely is that the person in question is developing schizophrenia or went off medication for some reason. Schizophrenia isn’t exactly rare on its own. It may have up to a 1% prevalence in the general population which means you will encounter many if you hang around lots of people.

[KneadToKnow]

@Nzinga

LSD / Insanity

I did not know there would be math.

[Nzinga_Seated]

Woooo! Them there is some good cites and great ammo for me! Thank you so much.

However, I can predict what my good friend will say. He will say, “not LSD, then. Something else.”

So can someone confirm that there is no such drug?

[Shagnasty]

@KneadToKnow

I did not know there would be math.

I didn’t know either but how did you get that post to be in neon? I want to do that. That chime you put on the M in math is beautiful too.

[KneadToKnow]

Easy, man. Take it easy.

[Shagnasty]

@Nzinga

Woooo! Them there is some good cites and great ammo for me! Thank you so much.

However, I can predict what my good friend will say. He will say, “not LSD, then. Something else.”

So can someone confirm that there is no such drug?

I do have some credentials. LSD is not common on the streets these days at all for one thing. People just don’t make it much and some try to fake it. One of the only illegal (uncut) drugs I know that could cause some type of real brain alteration that fast is Ecstasy and that is controversial, not much related to what he is talking about, and more for long-term users.

Methamphetamines are popular theses days and can cause some real brain alterations including some symptoms that mimic schizophrenia. That is generally from addiction however and any that was slipped into a drink wouldn’t be through a potent method of consumption like smoking it would be. That is also very unlikely.

[mswas]

LSD is a chemical. It does not contain any information. In that snopes article it claims that LSD imposes hallucinations. This is false. LSD is a chemical that reacts with your brain chemistry. You will not see anything that was not already there.

Timothy Leary theorized that LSD loosened mental conditioning for a temporary period of time. That it can be used as an intentional reconditioning tool, or if used unintentionally can reinforce prior conditioning.

If Leary’s theory of LSD is correct, then it is possible that someone can be conditioned partially by an unintentional LSD experience, thus schizophrenic.

At the very least, LSD would only be one among many factors that would cause a person to go insane. It does not interact upon your brain in a vacuum but in tandem with all of your experiences, particularly the experiences one has while on LSD.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Nzinga

Woooo! Them there is some good cites and great ammo for me! Thank you so much.

However, I can predict what my good friend will say. He will say, “not LSD, then. Something else.”

So can someone confirm that there is no such drug?

The CIA has such a drug, but if I tell you about it I’d have to kill you.

And your friend, too, if he really asks that stupid a question.

Seriously. If he says that, put the burden on him to prove it or tell him to shut up.

And get a new friend.

[Nzinga_Seated]

mswas, are you saying that if someone gets LSD slipped in there drink and then have some traumatizing experience while high, they could go insane? Is that what the last part of your post means?
**
Shagnasty**, if I understand you correctly, are you saying that the most likely drug in existence that can drive you mad is Ecstasy, but that you don’t think that could happen by one spiked drink?

[Nzinga_Seated]

Exapno, the thing is, he really is smart. He is educated, he was a military officer for years, he is a succesful carreer man, and a great family man.

I *did * tell him the burden of proof is on him, (learned that from the Dope! I am so proud).
He won’t play fair though…he won’t accept that burden. And I really do want to convince him.

Also, he represents many where I am from. I am afraid almost all of my friends and family in my neighborhood believe this.

[Shagnasty]

@Nzinga

mswas, are you saying that if someone gets LSD slipped in there drink and then have some traumatizing experience while high, they could go insane? Is that what the last part of your post means?
**
Shagnasty**, if I understand you correctly, are you saying that the most likely drug in existence that can drive you mad is Ecstasy, but that you don’t think that could happen by one spiked drink?

Ecstasy probably would not (like almost certainly would not) drive you mad after one spiked drink but it is a drug of choice for doing such a thing. There is only some evidence of brain changes in people that take it frequently and they don’t imply that the people look anything other than normal during casual conversation.

BBC NEWS | England | Drinks spiked with liquid ecstasy

LSD is administered in tinnie micro-gram doses often administered on stamp-like things that you lick. You can’t even see it and I don’t know how you would slip an appropriate dose into someone’s drink at all.

[Nzinga_Seated]

Ok. That is good information, Shagnasty. I thank everyone for the help.

[Frylock]

I’ve been trying to figure out what the connection was supposed to be between Mormonism and insanity.

-FrL-

[ForumBot]

Lithium, a drug commonly used in the treatment of schiziphrenia, doesn’t react well with LSD sometimes. Combining the two has been known to cause full-blown mania and, in one case, death. In any case, taking psychoactives with an unstable mind is a BAD IDEA, as the results are rarely good.

The vast majority of cases, depressed or not, there are zero long-term consequences to LSD ingestion, but when there are problems, it always comes back to those mental problems that already exist in the user.

Erowid LSD (Acid) Vault : LSD and Antidepressants, by Mike

2. Lithium or tricyclics (like Amitriptyline, Anafranil, Asendin, Aventyl, Elavil, Endep, Norfranil, Norpramin, Pamelor, Sinequan, Surmontil, Tipramine, Tofranil, Vivactil) are fairly consistently reported as being very bad in combination with LSD. People attempting this combination are unable to communicate with others, they go into “fugue states” where they end up in other places and don’t know how they got there, and they are generally in a terrible place psychologically. Life-threatening seizures and at least one DEATH have been reported to be triggered by the combination of LSD and lithium.

[Contrapuntal]

@mswas

LSD is a chemical. It does not contain any information. In that snopes article it claims that LSD imposes hallucinations. This is false. LSD is a chemical that reacts with your brain chemistry. You will not see anything that was not already there.

I dropped acid in high school and saw David Crosby in the sky, covering about one third of the vista. Was he already there? How did he do that? Once he got that big, how did he shrink down again? (This was before* Dejas Vu*, so I assume he did shrink down. There are no recording studios large enough to accommodate someone eight miles high.)

[noblebaron]

LSD is administered in tinnie micro-gram doses often administered on stamp-like things that you lick. You can’t even see it and I don’t know how you would slip an appropriate dose into someone’s drink at all.

Liquid LSD, administered by eyedropper.

-NB

[Colibri]

@Shagnasty

Vastly more likely is that the person in question is developing schizophrenia or went off medication for some reason. Schizophrenia isn’t exactly rare on its own. It may have up to a 1% prevalence in the general population which means you will encounter many if you hang around lots of people.

Schizophrenia runs in my family. My father was schizophrenic, as was one of his two sisters. My first cousin was also schizophrenic; he was the son of my father’s other, non-schizophrenic sister. (Fortunately, neither I nor any of my five siblings, nor any of their nine offspring, nor my cousin’s three siblings, have shown any symptoms as yet.)

My cousin did LSD and other drugs before his diagnosis. Despite our family history, my mother and some other relatives blame his illness on this.

Schizophrenia is theorized by some to be due to a combination of predisposing factors (genetic and/or developmental) in combination with stressful life experiences. While LSD might not cause mental illness in an otherwise healthy individual, are you aware of any evidence that it might be a triggering or exacerbating factor in someone like my cousin who was genetically predisposed to schizophrenia?