Lucifer's Hammer book discussion (OPEN spoilers) [edited title]

Cafe Society
1

I’m about a hundred pages from the end of the book and plan to power through it in the next few days. I do most of my best reading in the bathroom so I’m gonna get some bran muffins and milk (I’m lactose intolerant)! :smiley: Feel free to discuss any aspect of the book including the ending, I’ll get to it soon. I think its ok to say at least its about a comet hitting the earth, and it does happen, because it says so right at the back of the book

I took interest in this book from this board, somebody was discussing, I think, sci-fi themed books or disaster books, and I like both. Plus I looked it up and one of the authors is Larry Niven, whom I’ve always meant to start reading because of the Ringworld books (that’s soon after I finish this one). I was pretty surprised when I got the book and noticed it was 600+ freaking pages, that’s like the 3rd longest book I’ve ever read and the longest single book I’ve read that’s not a compilation anthology (the #1 and #2 longest being the Chronicles trilogy and Brothers trilogy from the Dragonlance series). Its actually been sitting on my shelf for a while but I recently got into reading again after a long while of not really reading anything.

Thoughts so far on the book:

The book’s a good read, I like the pacing. I admit I kept flipping to random pages in the middle of the book when I started because I wanted to see at what page approximately the comet hits

I didn’t find any part of the book boring at all. When I read Dune a few years ago, there were spots that just dragged on and on, where nothing interesting was happening and nobody interesting was doing anything. Here, the characters all appear very human. One of my favorite things about disaster movies/literature is how you get all kinds of weirdos that normally wouldn’t interact with each other having to depend on one another. TV producers, scientists, assistant managers, office workers, cops, etc., I liked how each one had some small part to play

With so many characters, I was also very grateful for the character list in the beginning. That’s helpful. More books should have that, I can’t remember the names and occupations of 20 different characters especially when the book jumps from one narrative to the other

It took me a while, like 50 to 100 pages, until they start talking about sending a manned space mission up to space for me to realize they are talking a lot about US/Soviet acrimony. I had thought the book took place much later, like in the 1990’s (I don’t know why I thought that). I was surprised to find out it has a copyright of 1977! That explains all the rush about beating the Soviets up into space.

I try not to judge how a character reacts. Obviously the writer(s) imbue each character with some purpose, and unless its completely out of whack, I won’t presume to dictate how so and so should act in a completely fictitious universe, especially one that is so changed from ours with the whole comet thing. But I feel that they should have spent a bit more time on Maureen Jellison. I don’t have a problem with her sleeping around, its just that her background doesn’t seem like it would lead to that. Hardly any time is given to her motivations, and being the daughter of a prominent senator, you’d think she’d be more discreet about things. I have no idea why she met, hiked, and slept with Harvey Randall all on the same day. Its not like he was going all out flirting with her or anything. They had precious little dialogue in the book, and though they spent the whole day together, it wasn’t really hinted at that they talked about ending up in bed together by night’s end. Maybe I’ll just blame the 70’s timeframe for that, I dunno. It just didn’t make any sense for me.

I’m not sure how to feel about Alim Nassar. His anger seems to be more justified if this book was set a decade earlier, but I’m sure there are a lot of people like him that exist in whatever time. He’s smart and crafty, and I like his internal dialogue because it seems to me how a leader would think. But I can’t get over the fact that his racial attitudes seem outdated.

While the whole side story with Fred Lauren was probably added to show how people can flip out at the end of the world, I can’t help feeling that it could have been completely edited out without the book suffering. Father Armitage is the kind of uber whackjob I like to read about, not some guy who peeps and kills a target.

And I have to take back a little bit about what I said about about not judging a character’s motivations, but Harry the mailman’s actions just seem inexplicably out of place. He still delivers mail? He’s still cheerful and putting himself in danger? Its like he’s a robot whose creators were killed and decided to keep performing his last order until he runs out of power! In the apocalypse, I think he’d be the first to flip out

Right now, I’m at the part of the book where Jellison’s Stronghold people just found out about the New Brotherhood racial army of cannibal fanatics being lead by a Sgt. Hooker, Father Armitage, and Alim Nassar. They just found diabetic scientist Dan Forrester who’s going to teach them how to make chemical weapons in exchange for them trying to save the only surviving nuclear plant in California.

My predictions on the rest of the book:

  1. They’re gonna fight, there’s no doubt about that. Given the tone of the book, I don’t think things will be good for Jellison’s people. Either they’ll be conquered or they’ll mostly wipe each other out, but I don’t expect the Stronghold to be up and running by the end of the book

  2. Something they hinted at earlier, I don’t think Jellison’s heart will make it. I think by the end of the book, he’ll be dead or dying, and they’ll be trying to find new leadership. I actually don’t think it’ll be the utopian version Al Hardy described where George Christopher takes over with Maureen as his queen, I don’t think he’ll survive either. Maybe Harvey will prove Hardy wrong and will step up and people will listen to him

  3. I have to admit I’m having a soft spot for the Hamners. I found Tim to be annoying and loudmouthed by Eileen sticking with him has really changed my mind about him. They’re living sort of separate from the rest of the Stronghold. Its my hope they make it to the end

  4. I hope they don’t end the book with the big battle and the immediate aftermath. I hope to get some kind of time skip, maybe we’ll see what’s going on in 20 or 50 years after the events of Hammerfall. I want to see what happens to some of the rest of the world too! What happened with Colorado Springs? How about the Chinese/Soviet war? The astronauts mentioned that Europe was gone, so where else would fill in as the leaders of the world?

  5. Is this a plot hole? Last I heard before Dan Forrester joined the Stronghold, he was forced to join the army guys who had killed their commanding officer. They took his jacket and some other stuff. For a while, I thought those army guys had joined up as part of Sgt. Hooker’s people, but I don’t see any mention of Gillings anymore. Did he get killed?

2

I love that book.

1. Wrong! 2. Right, then wrong again. 3. Right 4. Sorta, kinda 5. I forget.

Motivations might be a little trite, but neither of the authors is really strong at subtle.

3

Late 1970s. Damn. It has been that long since I read it.

4

It’s been several years since I re-read Lucifer’s Hammer. (I keep seeing it on my book shelf, though. :wink: ) I can’t really remember the details.

I read the book in the early-'80s. I was living at home in the Mojave Desert (Northern L.A. County) at the time, so I was familiar with many of the locations. The story seemed plausible and I could relate to the characters. The last time I read it, I had to remind myself how old a book it was. Not as dated as Alas, Babylon! though. :wink:

A couple of thoughts:

  1. I’ve always wondered how easy it really is to make a chemical weapon.

  2. I’d love to see this made into a movie that sticks close to the book, without too much god-damned CGI in it. Some CGI, but not the ludicrous amount seen in movies today.

About the mailman: I had no problem with his continuing to deliver the mail. People react differently to situations. His coping mechanism was to try to continue as ‘normally’ as possible.

5

For some reason, I’m sure I’ve read this book. But damn if I can remember anything of it. And when I do try, all I get is memories of “Footfall.”

6

I would advise you not to go from this to Ringworld in one jump. Read some of Niven’s N-Space stories first to get a feel for the Nivenverse.

7

I’m not a big fan of the book myself.

I’m not saying it’s a bad book - there are parts I still remember (I read it in the 80s) but overall I think it is a lesser Niven.

My complaints are more “meta” - I think Niven specifically tried to write a "blockbuster’ rather than trying to write a good book. There’s a lot going on, which is good, but the characters seem to be extremes. The aforementioned

cannibal army seemed a bit much, even in an ongoing-apocalyptic world. And Tim, always trying to make himself a legend in his own time (“did you hear any stories about the flying dutchman Blazer?”), got on my nerves.

My most groan-inducing moment came at the big climatic battle. I can hear the John Williams score as I type: “rat catching is a fine job. But we controlled the lightning. Give my people back the lightning!” as Jellison(? wasn’t it?) dies…gah! So melodramatic! So overwrought.

Though I did appreciate the final bit:

"What is that in the sky? Contrail! Jet plane!"A possibility of a happy ending. Though now I want to know more about those people and not the cannibal army.

8

Eh, Ringworld is the first Niven I ever read. It’s pretty self contained - yes, it refers to previous Known Space stories, but it does a pretty good job giving the backstory for them too. Transfer booths, hyperspace and the Blind Spot, Kzinti & Puppeteers, GP hulls - he doesn’t assume you know anything about them. I think it’s a great introduction to his other works.

9

That’s because they’re the same book. N&P first wrote something a lot like Footfall and were told the story was great, but get rid of the aliens. Result: Lucifer’s Hamster.

I have a slightly battered first of it around here somewhere and loved it in the day. I am not sure it would hold up, but two passages have really stuck in my mind.

The first is “…like the world’s biggest flyswatter.” Heh.

The second is the last absolutely chilling passage from the comet’s view, ending with “…but there appears to be something in its path.” Made the hair stand up on the back of my neck just now, over three decades later.

10

Another one of those books I need to put on my re-read list since it’s been decades. I have always thought the teaming of the two authors was much stronger than when they were separate.

11

I agree. From there the OP can explore if he so desires. But Ringworld is entirely self-contained, even if it references things that feature in other stories.

One of my more precious books is a personalized, signed First of Ringworld. You know, the edition where Larry has the world spinning the wrong direction. :smack:

12

I wasn’t a huge fan of this book, but it turns out I’m not a big fan of Niven.

That said, it’s far from the worst book I read in 1997 — I traded my copy on a train to Frankfurt for an embarrassment of a mystery novel by Patricia Cornwall and I still feel ripped off.

13

I agree with this. While still reading the book, maybe just after reading that passage, I went back and reread all the bits from the comet’s perspective. They were all in italics at the start of a chapter, so they were easy to find. Worth the quick reread.

14

I re-read it a few years ago (actually my first purchased ebook that I read on my phone, and available sans DRM) and have been passing my paper copy around at work. It’s a long climb in the backstory, but I enjoyed all of the payoff. However, for one reader I advanced it to Hot Fudge Sundae on a Tuesday, and he appreciated that.

I actually like the melodramatic"Give my children the lightning again" – the first time I read the book I was a teenager. Now I have teens of my own, and that line hits a dad differently than it did a kid.One question I have that came up in our reading circle was, "What does the repeated ‘ook ook’ mean?!? The full quote:Sharps wasn’t listening to Harvey. He rolled his eyes toward the ceiling. “Calving already?”
Forrester’s grin widened. “Ook ook.”
Then he noticed Harvey Randall again. “You asked about danger,” he said. “Let’s look at it. We have several masses, largely the same material that boils off to form the coma and the tail: fine dust, foamy frozen gases, with pockets where the really volatile stuff has been long gone, and maybe a few rocks embedded in there. Hey—” Randall looked up at Forrester.
Forrester was grinning his cherubic smile. "That’s probably why it’s so bright already. Some of the gases are interacting. Think what we’ll see when they really get to boiling near the Sun! Ook ook."From Jerry Pournelle’s site, he still has regular walks with Niven, and they are working on a sequel. I guess it would have to be an alternate history these days.

As for Niven’s other stuff, Ringworld was the first book of his I read, and later came back to “Neutron Star” in a different collection before reading Crashlander to get all those short stories of Beowulf Shaeffer. I’ve not read any other Known Space stories (the whole Kzinti thing never appealed to me).

15

Aside, but she now has TV ads for herself about how much hands on research she does… shows her jumping out of helicopters, firing assault rifles, etc.

I read one of her books. Utterly unmemorable vanilla.

16

One thing that got me with both this book and Footfall is just how small the cast is. Here we have people from all walks of life, from all across the country, and they just keep on running into each other, and all have connections with each other. It strains my suspension of disbelief.

I did like the mailman continuing to deliver the mail, though.

17

I just checked it out from the library and reread it two weeks ago. I have no interest in participating in a “boxed spoiler” discussion of a 37-year-old work of art.

18

I thought that was pretty corny.

The most groan-inducing parts for me were when the two white authors were writing in 60’s/70’s black vernacular. “Them honkies wouldn’t give me none of their bread, you dig? Gimme some skin!” Oy.

19

Then don’t box them. The OP doesn’t care.

20

It is a heck of a long time since I read either, but I recall that I enjoyed Ringworld far more than Lucifer’s Hammer. (Still, the OP apparently didn’t like Dune, so what can one say?)