Here’s a very straightforward example of (almost certain) bad faith posting from DT:
She selectively quotes me to make me appear unhinged and “extremist”, completely leaving out the critical context that the people I’m advocating should honestly be afraid of a violent uprising (aka the guillotine) are “billionaires and corporate CEOs” who use “bigotry to manipulate and maintain their power and control”.
And those people are still the real enemies of decency, just like they’ve always been. It’s always been the rich (not all the rich are like this, but all the ones doing this are rich) using bigotry and fear for manipulation and control.
Being angry at billionaires and corporate CEOs who use bigotry to manipulate and control is not remotely an extremist position.
“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable”?
Because that’s pretty much all I was saying, with the addendum that “Those” are the billionaires and fatcat CEOs who use bigotry and fear for manipulation and control.
And that society would be a lot better if these assholes actually recognized this history. If they continue on this path, they’re digging their own graves. It’s not a threat – it’s just an inevitability based on human history.
I would only support violent revolution against genocide or mass slavery. But I’m not the one in charge. Historically, if the imbalance gets too large, it’s inevitable.
Yeah, I’m sorry, I don’t think that’s bad faith manipulation.“I want billionaires to be afraid of a violent uprising, up to and including the guillotine” IS an extreme thing to say. Are you claiming it isn’t?
Leaving in the context that the enemies you want to fear the guillotine are billionaires might change whether someone agrees with you or not, but it doesn’t change whether the position in and of itself is extreme.
I mean, even now - I assume that you’re being hyperbolic by referencing the guillotine? Because if not, if you’re being literal, yeah, that’s SUPER extreme.
You seriously don’t think society would be better if scumbag billionaires like Musk and Trump were afraid that the oppression they advocate and implement might blow back on themselves?
Because that’s literally what I’m saying in different words.
Society would be better off if people like Trump and Musk were worried about reputational and financial harm.
Society would be a flaming wreck if we were at the point where Musk and Trump are literally worried about whether their head and neck will remain attached to each other.
What do you think the average person’s life is like when society has crashed that far? Do only billionaires suffer?
Yous seriously think society would be better if we were at the point where billionaires were routinely being publically executed by the mob? That’s really not hyperbole?
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that society would be better if asshole billionaires recognized that, based on long human history, they are putting themselves in danger by continually exploiting the poor and vulnerable.
It also confuses “inevitable” with “soon, as in during our current lifetimes.”
If the current crop of billionaires can keep the lid on for another 75 years, why would they not? They’re out for themselves, and only themselves. They’re happy to let their successors fend for themselves in their era: the 22nd and 23rd centuries.
I think the beliefs you expressed in that post about how society works are wrong, and inasmuch as your actions have an effect, I believe they are likely to increase the chance of the future you fear. And maybe you think the same of me. But we’ve debated all this before and know we aren’t going to change each other’s minds. I don’t want to rehash it now.
I really don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.
Are they putting themselves in “danger” of having their head chopped off by a guillotine, or in “danger” of losing their status and wealth?
I think it would be good if billionaires had more worries about legal consequences, reputational harm, or financial ruin.
I do not think it would be good if billionaires had more worries about being executed by guillotine. Or being shot in the street by a Super Mario Bro, for that matter.
What makes your post extreme is that it sounds a whole lot more like the latter scenario then the former. And I still have no idea if you’re talking about a literal or figurative guillotine.
I’m talking about history. The guillotine is inevitable in certain circumstances. I think it would be better if the very wealthy recognized those circumstances and, selfishly, decided that it’s better to be a bit less wealthy and feed and care for the masses than continue to exploit and risk their doom.
Luigi was an inevitability. There will be many more if things don’t change.
So you’re saying that yes, it would be a good thing if more billionaires were literally scared for their literal lives, because it would mean they would take more altruistic actions?
I just want to be clear about whether I understood your original post or not. Based on your explanations, this is my best read for it. If that’s not correct, I would like to understand why not.
Yes! You think this would be bad? You don’t think the next United CEOs ought to consider “maybe if we don’t make people suffer and die so much, we’ll be less likely to be murdered”?
The poor billionaires! God forbid they might learn any lessons after blowback from mass exploitation and suffering that they themselves are responsible for!
Now that we are clear on what your position is: Yes, I consider “It would be good if billionaires were afraid for their lives” to be an extreme position. That is separate from the question of whether it’s a position I agree with (although in this case, I very much do NOT) - but surely you can recognize that it is an extreme position.
No, I don’t think that’s the outcome that will happen if billionaires are afraid for their lives.
I didn’t say “billionaires should fear for their lives” absent context. I said it would good if they recognized the historical fact that mass exploitation and suffering at the hands of the wealthy can result in violence against those who exploit.
If you disagree with that, then we live in different moral and factual universes.