Inspired by the thread about different sects of Christianity, I started looking into the Wisconsin Synod. I’m fascinated by how different religions determine how one achieves enlightenment/grace/paradise, but this one’s got me a little confused. From their site:
We believe that already before the world was created, God chose those individuals whom he would in time convert through the gospel of Christ and preserve in faith to eternal life (Ephesians 1:4-6; Romans 8:29,30). This election to faith and salvation in no way was caused by anything in people but shows how completely salvation is by grace alone (Romans 11:5,6).
We reject the false and blasphemous conclusion that those who are lost were predestined, or elected, by God to damnation, for God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9).
So, for WELS folk anyway, does God predetermine the delivery of grace or not? I hope this doesn’t come off as a question from a snarky non-theist looking for exploitable holes; I’m genuinely curious. Thanks.
Uh-Oh.
I`m a WELS (WI Synod) folk, and this does look like a contradiction of doctrine. I will ask the Pastor after church tonite to elaborate on the two points (5 + 10).
I think that point 5 may refer to a handful of chosen people that God has selected to be saved. Not everyone that is saved.
But I`m probably wrong as usual.
Not Wisconsin Synod here, but still Lutheran. The confusing word to me is “individuals.” Basic Lutheran tenant is that God chose to offer salvation to everyone, no matter how good or badly the individual had lived.
I’m going to take a long shot and guess that “individuals” is used in the same context as “persons” is used in many laws – we’re talking about everyone, but one at a time, not as a group.
I forgot, there was no service last night because of the Easter stuff going on. Tried to call the Pastor this morning and a little while ago, but no one answered. Me thinks he is on a break this week. I promise to follow this up. Watch for an update later this week.
My baliwick is Catholic doctrine which is more philosophically based in expression than is Lutheran doctrine which is more scripturally expressed. And so, let me attempt to translate the sense of the scriptural doctrine into more formal logical expression:
Don’t confuse the use of predestination with the ordinary sense of “it’s going to happen that way no matter what.” This isn’t a prediction of the future which you can’t escape. This is an expression of predestination from the point of view of God, not your point of view.
From God’s point of view, he knows the future and knows who’s going where. That doesn’t take away from our free will. We still choose freely, it’s just that God already knows what we choose.
And so, point number five isn’t what you think it is. It is not saying that God has choosen persons number 2, 8, and 13 for salvation and the rest are out of luck. Persons number 2, 8, and 13 are saved, but not by their own doing. They didn’t earn it, work for it, deserve it, or were rewarded for it. Their salvation was purely the grace (free gift) of God who freely chose to save them. The point of doctrine number five is that God chooses to do what God chooses to do. And those whom he has chosen to save are said to be ‘elected’ (i.e., chosen) by him for salvation.
Doctrine #5 is not a statement denying human free will, but affirming total freedom for God to act as he chooses.
Now, doctrine #10 should then be a bit easier to understand in light of this: God doesn’t determine in advance who’s going to Hell. All people get the invitation to heaven. Some don’t accept it. Some do. God didn’t force anyone’s hand. No one forces God’s. Those who are saved, God knows about and has called them from the beginning of time (God wrote out the invitations in advance, and being God, he knows who’s going to show up).