I’m starting to think about what I want to do after I graduate (with a B.A. in English), where I want to go, etc etc. Due to my interests, my major, and what I’d like to do for a living, I was thinking of getting an MFA in Creative Writing and then a PHD in 20th Century American Lit.
My boss here at the University thinks this is a fine plan. My creative writing professor (and I guess mentor) thinks this is a fine plan. Another professor thinks I’m the biggest fools since fools came to fooltown, and had many complaints about my plan, but one specifically has stuck with me (I ignored the rest of the dire warnings…)
He said I’d never get accepted into a Ph.D. program with an M.F.A. Nobody else has said as much to me. I’m not overly concerned by this–I’ll get an MA too if I need to, but I’d like to know what to expect now. Or I might decide not to get an M.F.A. at all, though I would really like to do that. I mean, if my plan really is the suckiest suck that ever sucked, now would be the time to make the adjustments.
The prof who thinks I’m a fool also advised me to skip grad school complete, get my teaching credential, and settle down now for a life time of teaching high school English…he’s an assosiate professor in the English department and he’s firmly convinced that the only job an English major could get, or would want to get, is a teacher…but that’s neither here nor there.
What would you like to do for a living? There isn’t much percentage in having a Ph.D. in literature unless you want to research/teach that subject at the college or university level. If you want to write and teach, you don’t necessarily need both of those degrees. For example, I know someone who teaches poetry and literature at a prominent liberal arts college and has also published a few books of her own work–she has a Ph.D., but no M.F.A.
Most people I know with just M.F.A.'s teach/do something to do with the visual arts.
Generally speaking, most literature M.A./Ph.D. programs come as a package. You go straight in with your B.A., earn an M.A. after about 2 years, and then decide whether you want to continue. I don’t see why a program wouldn’t accept you with a M.F.A. if they would accept you with a B.A. However, you might not be able to apply all the courses from you M.F.A. to just any Ph.D. program.
Since I’ve never heard of an MFA. before, I won’t presume to understand the exact ramifications of getting that instead of an MA. Howver, I would like to point out that the advice that latter prof seems highly suspect to me.
People who advise you to do something completely different from what you would like to do are (in my opinion) having some kind of personal hang-up which they try to enforce on you. If someone points out difficulties, fine, but if someone tries to set your goals for you in spite of your states wishes, he is also prone to fabricate problems out of thin air just to get you in the direction of his choice.
I want to be a professor of both writing and literature, but honestly, I want to do Creative Writing and 20th Cen Lit because I like those subjects. Ok, well, love actually.
I think you’re right, Tusculan. The man is very bitter about something–and I have my suspicions–but mostly I tune him out. Unfortunately, I couldn’t tune out the bit of about not getting accepted into a Ph.D. program with an MFA because he might actually be right about that.
Is there not a way to check on the requirements of various Ph.D. programs? There must be something written somewhere of the prerequisites for a particular program at a particular school. Even if nothing is written down, all programs have advisors and people who run them - perhaps you could get someone to informally talk with you about what is realistic.
I don’t see why they’d not accept an MFA either, but who knows.
I’ve been in your situation, wanting to teach creative writing and 20 century Lit, so I got an MA and Ph.D. and now teach those subjects at a university, where I sometimes serve on a hiring committee, and I can tell you that we almost never look to hire someone with an MFA.
The only condition that we WOULD hire an MFA would be if that person had published a fabulous couple of books, and in that case we’d probably be willing to make a case for him or her even with only a BA.
There are probably a lot of places less conservative than this university, but in the main, PhDs hire other PhDs, and look for reasons to see their own credential as a minimum qualification.
What I did might help you, though: instead of enrolling in a two-year MFA program, I opted to get two MAs in creative writing, back to back, and then enroll in a PhD program with a creative dissertation. The two MAs (and only one would have been fine, I was just enjoying the travel and the new people I was meeting) got me admitted to the PHD program just fine.
The reason an MFA might not get you admitted to a PhD program is that the MA’s coursework allows you to study much of the course material that the doctorate also covers. A lot of artsy-craftsy stuff might look to the PhD program like stuff outside their field of study–in any case, whether you get credit for the master’s or not, you’ll probably have to study the whole ball of wax to get through the PhD anyway. I’d say that if you’re going for a PhD all along, the creative writing MA might do a little more good, if only because it isn’t viewed as a terminal degree as the MFA is, so you might seem like a more serious candidate. If your writing is good, though, you should get admitted to some PhD program anyway.
Should you decide that a PhD with a tight job market at the end of it is too much hassle, you might like to consider getting the MFA or MA, and then going to library school for an MLIS. University libraries like their librarians to have master’s degrees in other disciplines, and there will be lots of places looking for academic librarians over the next several years. Just something to consider, in case your full plan doesn’t work out…
Both my SILs did combo programs- they got their Masters and PhDs together (or right after). Theirs were in psychology, but I assume there are similar programs in the arts.
I would go for it. You know what you love- don’t let some bitter, disillusioned academic who settled instead of doing what he loved get you down!
Education is never wasted, regardless of whether or not you work in your field.
Thanks for the response. This is exactly what I was looking for. Now, for my other concern…are jobs drying up? I’ll probably pursue these degrees regardless, but I am curious about that situation. Prof. Bitterpants is of the opinion that in ten years, English departments will be phased out entirely and replaced by something akin to “Culture Studies”…
Here’s another thread from a poster on a similar question. I used the opportunity to pump my own degree, of course, but there was other advice as well.
