Mac experts: Will a copied executable run without installing? (and other upgrade Q's)

Factual Questions
1

My wife has a G4 tower that was purchased when they first came out, baybe 5 years ago. It still works fine.

Our bank, however, now demands a newer version of Quicken to download banking info, and the newest version of Mac Quicken will not run on OS 10.1 (which is what she has).

Apparently OS upgrades of this magnitude are not available to download, and when I called up last week to see what we needed was told to wait a couple of days to get the new Jaguar, otherwise known as OS 10.4.

I’m now glad I didn’t just order it over the phone, because when I went to the Mac store to buy it I discovered that despite my conversation with the Mac tech the week before who said our copmuter would be able to run it, we apparently do not have enough memory (only 128K when it needs 256K).

So we need more memory as well as the new OS, and the Mac store I went to says that this is an “old” Mac with expensive memory. They only had 512 available to buy, and it cost $200.

The guy suggested I go with a Mini-Mac instead, for $499 (instead of the $329 for the memory and new OS). It would have more memory than her ciurrent Mac, more hard drive space and a faster processor. We are tempted to do this, except I’m not sure about the software.

They said they would transfer all date we wanted (for free) from the old Mac to the new Mini-Mac, and we would have new versions of most of the software we need. I think he said it even comes with Quicken, and with AOL that my wife uses.

But it doesn’t come with Word. My wife uses Word quite a bit. A new version from the Mac store will cost $400, which pushes the Mini-Mac beyond the upgrade cost-effectiveness. An upgrade of Word is “only” $230, but still. The guy told me, however, that copying the Word application to the new Mini-Mac will still run (since it runs just fine on her current OS 10.1).

Is this true?

I know on PC’s, which I am more familiar with, that this would generally not be true. It would need to be installed on a new computer. But will the application file of Word (Word '97, I think, if it matters) run on the new Mini-Mac just by copying it on the new drive?

Are there any other issues I need to consider before doing this?

I am scheduled to drop the computer off first thing tomorrow morning, so not much time to get feedback.

My wife would also like Acrobat Reader and Flash Player to play properly, which do not on her current computer. Am I correct in thinking that a new Mini-Mac would easily solve those issues just by downloading the respective programs?

Anything else I should know about?

2

Sorry, I clicked Submit Reply instead of Preview so please excuse the typos. I think you can figure out that I meant “data” instead of “date,” etc.

One last question, although perhaps better placed in it’s own thread (if so, just tell me). My wife has heard that a browser called “Safari” is best to use on a Mac. Is that true, as well, and if so, is that just a matter of her downloading it from somewhere? I guess she would use Safari at the same time AOL was open, using Safari as the browser instead of typing in URL’s in the AOL window.

Thanks again.

3

The new version of Mac OS X (10.4) is Tiger, not Jaguar. Jaguar was 10.2, Panther was 10.3, Tiger is 10.4.

In general, applications on Mac OS X are self-contained packages that do not require installation. The application file you see is not really an executable: rather, it’s a folder containing everything the application needs to run (analogous to an folder in “Program Files” under Windows). So, on Mac OS X, installing an application is usually as simple as dragging it from the installation CD/downloaded disk image into your “Application” folder. The only exceptions are things like virus software, device drivers and the like, that actually need to modify the workings of the system.

I’m pretty sure that this is true for Word, but Microsoft being what it is, it might not be. For any other Mac OS X application, you’d be all set, but who knows what weirdness they pull with Office (which is problematic enough even on the platform it’s built for).

Regarding Safari, it is part of Mac OS X 10.2 and greater. You don’t have to download it, it will show up in the dock automatically. Some people (myself included) prefer it to Firefox, others say Firefox is better, but both of them are pretty much equal in reality. Safari is definitely more Mac-ish.

Also, you don’t have the original Word CD that you used to install it on your existing computer? It should still work.

If all else fails, Microsoft sells a student/teacher version of Office for Mac OS X that retails for $99 - would that be an option?

4

Sorry, the second-to-last line of my second paragraph should read “Applications” folder.

5

Oops… that’s what I meant!

Does this mean that copying the blue Word icon that you double-click to open a blank Word document really copies a Word folder and any needed associated files?

Thanks for the heads-up… hopefully it will work. Perhaps I can even tell them that once they transfer the data files, my purchasing the computer will rely on Word actuall running. After all, at that point, it hasn’t left the Mac store.

If anyone has any actual experience with running Word on a Mac by just copying the files instead of installing it, I would love to hear about it.

I guess the new operating system is sounding better all the time, although from what you are telling me Safari will be there whether we get the new Mini-Mac or just upgrade the G4.

If I knew where the Word disk is I woudn’t be worrying about this. Perhaps I can find it, but after 5 years I’m not too optimistic. How does one qualify to get the educational version? Do we have to find someone who is a student to buy it for us, or will they sell it to anyone who asks for it? Since neither of us are teachers or students, I didn’t think I qualified (although my wife does have what could very realistically be called an “educational” website, just not one actually sanctioned by any official institute of learning).

6

To echo what Absolute said, Mac software installation usually[sup]*[/sup] consists of copying one file from your installation CD to whatever folder you want on your computer. Uninstalling software is similarly trivial – just drop it in the Trash.

[sup]*[/sup]System utilities/extensions being a notable exception, since they want to stash stuff in your /Library folder

Re: MS Office replacements. Aside from the $99 “student” version of MS Office, there’s also Apple’s free-with-the-OS TextEdit application. The latest version can import and export MS Word files, and supports multiple fonts, margins, and whatnot. If your wife’s word-processing needs aren’t too complex, it’s worth considering.

I think the Mac Mini will also come with Appleworks – it includes a word processor with rudimentary Office compatibility, though IMO it’s a rather clunky anacronism in the light of other software out there.

For $79, Apple will gladly sell you iWork, their work “suite” software. Pages, the word processor program, can import and save files in MS Word format.

Finally, though I haven’t used it myself, there’s NeoOffice/J, a Mac-native port of the free OpenOffice suite. It’s most notable for playing nice with other Mac applications; given the price point, it’s worth a download and test drive, I think.

7

Whoa. Don’t ever buy memory from Apple. Seriously. Even back in the day it was a bad idea. Now it’s just silly, as all their computers use standard memory.

The G4 tower will most likely take PC100 or PC133 memory DIMMs. It might take PC2100 DDR ram if it’s one of the ones with the mirrored drive doors, but since it shipped with only 128 megs, I kind of doubt it. Knowing what speed the processor is and what the case looks like will help pin down exactly what kind of RAM you need.

A 512 Meg dimm will run you ~$60-80. You can get it anywhere, and the G4 towers are some of the easiest machines to upgrade. Ever.

The Mac Mini in this situation isn’t much of an upgrade - it’ll have a faster processor and a better video card, but likely a much slower system bus. I don’t think you’ll be happy with it, as you’ll have spent $500 on a computer that isn’t going to completely blow your old computer out of the water, and is much less upgradeable.

And if it’s an older version of Word (the Mac didn’t get Word 97, it got Word 6, then later Office 2001, then Office v.X), that means it’s running under Classic (Mac Os 9) and that’s most likely not going to survive moving it to a new machine.

8

It should. I don’t have Word on this computer to check, but that’s the way Mac OS X apps are supposed to work. Like I said though, I don’t know how well Microsoft plays along…

Worst case, you should be able to copy the entire Microsoft Office folder and be okay - I don’t think Office installs anything in the system folders.

And yes, you will have Safari regardless of whether you upgrade or buy the mini.

I don’t know what the requirements are for the educational version - when I bought mine at CompUSA, I don’t think they bothered to check, but I do look young enough to be a student.

You might be able to get away with trying to buy it, and if they hassle you, just say it’s a gift for your son/niece/whatever.

9

Essentially, yeah – it copies a folder called “MS Word” that just happens to look like an application, and all the files (the actual application itself, and any support files it needs) with it.

If you’re talking about one of those spiffy Apple Stores, I think if you explain your situation to one of the Mac Geniuses there, they’ll be glad to make sure you have a working copy of Word on your new computer before you walk out.

I believe you just have to show some form of student ID or something similarly impressive-looking, regardless of whether it’s current or not. Some of the mail-order dealers won’t even ask for that much, or they might randomly contact you and ask you to fax a copy of your “proof of student qualification.” If you buy it at an Apple Store, I doubt they’ll even bother to check.

10

I just wanted to re-iterate that. You could put a new hard drive in one of those things in fifteen seconds flat, from opening the case to closing it, and without needing to use any tools. It’s a thing of beauty how simple and well-arranged the innards are.

11

I just copied Office 2001 from my old G3 tower (currently running Jaguar) to my G4 Powerbook (upgraded to Tiger last weekend).

Much to my suprise, it worked. I had to copy the whole folder, and it appears to have installed stuff in my Classic system folder when I first launched it, but everything appears to function as well as Word 2001 ever did. I didn’t even need to re-enter the product key.

Man, Office 2001 was one hideous program.

Oh, yeah, you need to have a DVD drive to install Tiger if you go that route. I think you can also get them to ship you cds, but it might cost extra. Though I’m pretty sure only the lowest of the low-end G4s only shipped with CD-ROM drives.

12

You’re right, it’s $10.00 extra to the get the CD-ROM version of Tiger. You can’t buy it at the stores, you need to order it directly from Apple.

If you are currently using Office under Classic, I’d highly recommend you buy an OS X-native version. Aside from the performance increases and improved appearance, the usability and integration with the OS are much better.

13

The early G4s had a 133 Mhz bus, and I think the mini has a 167.

The real bottleneck in the mini is the hard drive: many of them ship with only a 4200 rpm drive. That’s going to really affect performance, especially if you don’t have a lot of RAM and the OS ends up paging more memory out to disk.

Like buckgully said, a good memory upgrade for your G4 will run you about $70. (Count on getting at least 512 MB. Don’t listen to Apple’s noise about 256.) If you decide you need better performance, throw a 1 Ghz G4 upgrade in that machine for another $250. Right there you’ve got performance equal or better to that of the mini, while retaining the expandability of your tower. And installing a processor upgrade in a G4 is actually easier than, say, replacing the optical drive.

14

Note that Apple’s most recent upgrades of its PowerMacs, iMacs, and eMacs all now come with 512MB standard.

Running MacOS X on 256MB is painful; I can’t imagine using it with 128MB. :eek:

15

No questions asked at my CompUSA either, and the installation doesn’t quiz you either.

Like Tiger, the current version of Office comes on DVD.

16

Oh, lest anyone think I’m trying to cheat Microsoft out of $300, this was bought for, and installed on a Mac belonging to someone with “University” in their employer’s name. It was simply far easier and faster to pop over to the store than go through the internal requesition process.