I think Roman Polanski is about as disgusting a human being as you can get, but can you really fault him for making a movie about father/daughter incest? Especially when it’s not like the movie is condoning said incest?
No, then we’d think it was the pizza guy, Papa John!
“How come I’ve never seen daddy and grandpa in the same room, Mommy?”
“Well, dear - it’s complicated…”
Regards,
Shodan
Or perhaps -
“She’s my daughter!”
Whap!
“She’s my sister!”
Whap!
“She’s my daughter and my sister!”
Whap!
“Certs is a breath mint!”
Whap!
“Certsi is a candy mint!”
Whap!
Etc.
Regards,
Shodan
koeeoaddi said:
The sad truth is that in these situations the wives/mothers often are the strongest doubters and the least likely to accept it. I think it has something to do with if you accept that the person you love and married is capable of it, then you are saying something about your own judgment and obliviousness.
Belowjob2.0 said:
Since I’m apparently not enough of a film buff, would you mind citing a title of said movie, for us clueless?
I’m not actually faulting him. Chinatown was a great film, and Polanski is still one of our greatest living filmmakers. I believe that transgressive sexual behavior wrt children was part of the Hollywood zeitgeist, and it was talked about, and sometimes acted upon.
Like Melanie Griffith bringing a 12 yo Tatum O’Neill to an orgy (wtf?! Seriously, who does that? And what parent puts her 12 yo kid in a movie where she plays a child prostitute and gets naked? I know momma Shields was an alcoholic, but I don’t think I could ever be that drunk.)
And yet it worked on “General Hospital.”
I watched the Oprah interview, and it raised more questions than it answered. For example . . .
She claims that the first time, she was knocked out from drugs, and briefly awoke to discover she was having sex with her father . . . then once again became unconscious. If that happened to me, I’d strongly suspect the “discovery” was part of the drug experience, and never really happened. And then, beginning with the very next encounter, it suddenly became consensual? I don’t buy it.
And the episode with Mick Jagger made just as much sense.
I wouldn’t put it past John Phillips to do such a thing, but if I have to believe someone, I think Michelle’s side of it sounds more accurate.
Oprah herself said that her producers were concerned about “Who’s gonna call the next morning to say it never happened?”
If it’s good enough for Noah, it’s good enough for me!
No one can get help without Oprah. I think they amended the Constitution for that about 10-15 years ago.
I think you mean Lot, and I hope you don’t think THAT was the moral of that story.
Not to hijack the thread, but Anais Nin wrote in great and lurid detail about seducing her father when she was around 30 or so. IIRC, the affair continued off and on for some time. I hadn’t thought of it this way before, but theirs would appear to be another in the “separated-relatives-reunited pattern of adult incest” that Belowjob2.0 spoke of upthread.
A recent review in the New York Times had this to say about their affair:
"The central “unexpurgated” event of “Incest” is, well, incest. Nin had an affair with her father. It is not quite as horrifying as it sounds: she had seen her father, a well-known pianist and composer, only once in the 20 years following his desertion of the family when she was 11. As depicted here, father and daughter are a matched pair: equally self-infatuated and self-mythologizing, equally sex-obsessed and equally crazy. Her steamy account of their trysts exudes a sense of triumph: at last the cold, aloof father who destroyed her childhood appreciates her at her true worth! Cite
A second review from the NYT speculates further:
“Nin’s incestuous affair with her father – described in the portentous, heavy-breathing prose of a cheap romance novel – appears to have been a way for her to recapture the man who had abandoned her as a child. By seducing and subsequently abandoning him, she felt she could somehow reinvent her childhood and settle old emotional scores. At the same time, Nin’s romance with her father, like so many of her affairs, also strikes the reader as a willful way of courting psychological havoc, a way of stirring up further melodrama in her life that might provide further grist for her literary mill.” Cite
It’s been my experience in life that people rarely think or do things for the reasons that outsiders suppose they do. About the only thing I’m sure of when it comes to Mackenzie Phillips and her father is that their perspective on what was going on between them was a great deal different than anything any of us are likely to assume. Still, these analyses of Nin’s incestuous affair with her father do add interesting food for thought when it comes to trying to understand why Mackenzie Phillips’ would engage in an affair with her father.
None of this, of course, is to suggest that John Phillips was anything less than a sleazebag.
Maybe it was really bad sex, or really, really bad drugs.
Regards,
Shodan
Her book is selling like hotcakes according to online stores. It was number 1 on Amazon earlier today. That’s not bad for somebody who’s been a has-been longer than Gary Coleman.
Well, while Gary may have been screwed by his parents, it wasn’t literally…
Please, don’t give him any ideas.
Speaking of Oprah, the other day Dr. Phil had on some of Marcus Wesson’s adult children. Not exactly the same thing – he brainwashed the girls with religion (though I wonder how that could be compared to scrambling someone’s brain with drugs), and ended up killing nine of his family members, including children he fathered with his own daughters – but it was clear that at least one of the daughters had been convinced nothing was wrong with having sex with him from an early age (even telling the police it was consensual), and even after all that had happened some don’t see him as a monster.
Again, not the same thing, but when there’s abuse consent is a tricky word to define.
Yowza.
Being an alcoholic, I can understand coming up out of a blackout into a terrible situation, but going back under quite quickly. Not “pass out,” remember, but “black out.” A black out is kind of like your brain goes home and goes to bed, but your body stays at the party. No one else knows you aren’t really “there”- you are walking, talking, carrying on coherent conversations, making decisions, spending money, etc.
It’s scary as hell. John sounds scary too.
Meh. Marcia Brady’s biography was a big seller for a few weeks too because everyone wanted to read just what naughty drug/sex-fueled shenanigans she got up to in the 70s. And according to Jan, at least some of it was complete fiction.
While I’m not saying that happened here, who knows how much the truth was stretched to make it a bestseller?