It’s hard to say on my end as to any problems with the mechanics. Our hands were really tied due to the players themselves more than anything. I guess I’d argue that having the officer spots public to everyone is a huge scum advantage - I would have liked to have seen this advantage offset somehow.
Unrelated, if nobody objects I’d be interested in running the next game. Thread here:
Won’t start for at least a week though. I figure we need a few days to recover.
I have always thought that multiple votes is anti-town. I know Pleonast thinks differently, but I disagree, strongly. At its very core the goal of Town isn’t so much as to vote for scum but to not vote for Town. In a single vote game these are basically the same thing, but in multi-vote… nay FORCED multi-vote, the ability of Town to completely avoid voting for Town is pretty much nil.
If I have one vote, then I have a decent shot at dropping that vote on a scum player and not giving the scum an opportunity to bandwagon a Townie.
If I have to place 4 votes, then I have to be right about ALL FOUR in order to prevent scum from having a Townie they can bandwagon with me.
It’s these stray votes for Town that makes it too easy for scum to quietly push a mislynch. In other words, a Townie will ALWAYS be in danger of getting lynched. Add on a scum vote or two and volia! Easy Town lynch.
Furthermore, the multivotes give scum a huge advantage at covering their tracks. Bandwagoning is much easier if you can vote for several other people to blunt the meaning of your vote. Heck, all votes are treated equally.
I didn’t follow the game closely, but after reading the rules, this was my impression.
Agree?
Disagree?
Can you explain your thinking more?
When I balanced this, I put a high townie value for public officer spots. The officers have to justify their use of powers or be lynched. That puts any scum on the spot; either act townie or suffer. The powers themselves cannot be removed from the game by killing (or lynching) the player that holds them, so scum face their effects every cycle.
It’s very hard to say given the specifics of this game, since absent that one lynch, the scum were never under any serious pressure. They never had to hide their tracks. With better town play at the outset, there may well have been more to work with even from mis-lynches.
I do agree that more data does not necessarily equal more town friendly. It all depends on how easy it is to interpret. In an ideal world every player would justify every vote and could be challenged on every vote, etc (which would make it town-friendly) – in the real world it may just be adding a greater amount of noise for the scum to hide their signal in.
The one lynch I think did go against town in part because of the voting format was Drain Bead’s. I somehow doubt she’d have been lynched in a single-vote game; absent players almost never are, on day one. But with her being on almost everyone’s list for reasons mostly to do with non-participation alone, she got lynched despite basically being no one’s suspect. I didn’t like the outcome of the Mahaloth lynch (not least because I could have saved him and brain-farted the opportunity), but that could have happened in any game. I think I was the only one predicating his chances of scumminess on another player’s I’d have preferred to lynch first.
I have to say that while I was playing I did like the multi-votes (before I got killed and found out how many townies I was after!) I feel like it did encourage thinking more broadly about suspects, and that’s usually a good thing. Just didn’t workout that way this time.
I think the game mechanic balancing was fine, if not still a little in the town’s favor. With more participation and more contemplation of what was going on we would have been extremely vulnerable. But I agree with sach that the voting system is extremely biased in the scum’s favor, and not only for the weirdness that I found.
I did some statistical vote analysis after Day 3 and found that the 7 confirmed Town players had been pretty bad in terms of voting for those that would become confirmed town and that the 6 unconfirmed players had better voting records despite half of them being scum. I found there was some evidence (although not overwhelming) that Town members were more likely to vote for Town, and if I had posted this evidence Red and I would have been at the top of the list of most likely scum. Now, I obviously understand the basic assumption that compared to Scum, Town is less likely to vote for Town, but in a multi-voting situation where the scum are able to slide in votes for each other without it likely to mean anything that’s a pretty poor assumption. I found a few other counter-intuitive indicators, but they were more likely to be noise.
I actually didn’t follow the game much at all. I’m positing a suggestion based on interpretation of the rules alone.
One thing I would say is that the fact that scum weren’t under any serious pressure could very well be due to the fact that multi-votes obscures the vote record. I’m not saying that is necessarily true, but I can see it as a strong possibility. I’m curious whether anyone could vote in a suspicious way with so many votes flying around.
In the game did anyone look at the vote record and be able to say I’m suspicious of X because of they way he voted? Did anyone try? What was the result? Was it easier or harder?
This is kind of my point. In multi-vote, if everyone agrees on a their fourth choice, that candidate becomes vulnerable. Furthermore, if there is any traction on a townie at all, then getting that townie lynched becomes super easy (and well hidden too since many townies were involved too).
I don’t know how many mislynches were afforded to the Town in this game, but giving scum one easy lynch helps scum immensely, two and it will be very hard for Town to win, three and that’s pretty much the game right there.
Stanislaus tried, but I was able to make a rebuttal that his assumptions needed to be verified. Everything that could have normally been considered a scum tell was seen to be just as likely among the confirmed Town as it was among the unconfirmed. When you accuse someone of being scum because he voted for all the leaders and fail to notice that multiple confirmed Town did the same exact thing, you aren’t going to get much traction.
Okay, time to do some real vote analysis.
Complete voting record, colored by alignment.
[spoiler]Day One Vote Count
All Votes by Voting Player
Hal Briston => [del]fluiddruid (74-392)[/del], [del]TexCat (74-392)[/del], [del]peekercpa (74-392)[/del], [del]Mahaloth (74-392)[/del], Normal Phase (392), fubbleskag (392).
fluiddruid => Natlaw (286), peekercpa (286), Mahaloth (286), [del]Red Skeezix (286-364)[/del], Drain Bead (364).
TexCat => Hal Briston (241), Idle Thoughts (241), Drain Bead (342), Stanislaus (342).
peekercpa => [del]Normal Phase (65-126)[/del], [del]Stanislaus (65-126)[/del], [del]fubbleskag (65-126)[/del], [del]Normal Phase (126-275)[/del], [del]Hal Briston (126-275)[/del], [del]Drain Bead (126-275)[/del], Idle Thoughts (237), [del]Inner Stickler (275-346)[/del], Hal Briston (276), [del]peekercpa (276-346)[/del], Mahaloth (346), fubbleskag (346).
Mahaloth => Hal Briston (284), [del]Idle Thoughts (284-371)[/del], peekercpa (284), [del]glowacks (284-365)[/del], fluiddruid (365), glowacks (371).
Inner Stickler => Hal Briston (223), Crackrat (223), [del]Idle Thoughts (223-287)[/del], Normal Phase (223), Drain Bead (287).
Red Skeezix => Hal Briston (173), [del]Idle Thoughts (244-289)[/del], [del]Inner Stickler (244-289)[/del], fluiddruid (289), Stanislaus (289), Drain Bead (289).
glowacks => [del]Idle Thoughts (291-399)[/del], Hal Briston (291), NAF1138 (291), [del]Drain Bead (291-399)[/del], Mahaloth (399), fubbleskag (399).
Normal Phase => [del]NAF1138 (72-92)[/del], [del]Stanislaus (72-92)[/del], [del]peekercpa (72-92)[/del], [del]Drain Bead (72-92)[/del], [del]Drain Bead (258-375)[/del], [del]Crackrat (261-318)[/del], Hal Briston (362), fubbleskag (362), [del]Normal Phase (362-397)[/del], fluiddruid (375), Red Skeezix (397).
Natlaw => [del]Inner Stickler (254-294)[/del], Idle Thoughts (255), [del]Hal Briston (267-394)[/del], [del]peekercpa (267-324)[/del], fluiddruid (294), [del]Drain Bead (324-352)[/del], Mahaloth (352), Drain Bead (394).
fubbleskag => Idle Thoughts (320), peekercpa (320), NAF1138 (320), Drain Bead (320).
Crackrat => [del]Inner Stickler (279-311)[/del], Idle Thoughts (323), Mahaloth (323), Hal Briston (339), Drain Bead (339).
Stanislaus => Idle Thoughts (312), fubbleskag (332), TexCat (333), Mahaloth (334).
Drain Bead => no votes.
Idle Thoughts => peekercpa (235), [del]Red Skeezix (235-319)[/del], [del]Inner Stickler (235-288)[/del], Natlaw (235), Hal Briston (368), Drain Bead (368).
NAF1138 => [del]glowacks (299-317)[/del], peekercpa (302), fluiddruid (305), [del]Stanislaus (309-359)[/del], Drain Bead (359), fubbleskag (360).
Net Votes
Drain Bead (9) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Crackrat, Idle Thoughts, NAF1138.
Hal Briston (9) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Mahaloth, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, glowacks, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Idle Thoughts.
Mahaloth (6) <= fluiddruid, peekercpa, glowacks, Natlaw, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Idle Thoughts (6) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
peekercpa (5) <= fluiddruid, Mahaloth, fubbleskag, Idle Thoughts, NAF1138.
fubbleskag (5) <= peekercpa, glowacks, Normal Phase, Stanislaus, NAF1138.
fluiddruid (5) <= Mahaloth, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase, Natlaw, NAF1138.
Natlaw (2) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts.
Stanislaus (2) <= TexCat, Red Skeezix.
NAF1138 (2) <= glowacks, fubbleskag.
glowacks (1) <= Mahaloth.
Crackrat (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Normal Phase (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Red Skeezix (1) <= Normal Phase.
TexCat (1) <= Stanislaus.
Day Two Vote Count
All Votes by Voting Player
Hal Briston => no votes.
fluiddruid => peekercpa (525), Mahaloth (526), Crackrat (526), [del]TexCat (526-527)[/del], Hal Briston (527).
TexCat => Hal Briston (428), fluiddruid (523), Mahaloth (523), TexCat (523).
peekercpa => [del]fubbleskag (458-483)[/del], Hal Briston (458), Mahaloth (458), fluiddruid (458), NAF1138 (483).
Idle Thoughts => glowacks (459), Mahaloth (538), Hal Briston (538), fubbleskag (538).
Mahaloth => Stanislaus (507), Hal Briston (510), glowacks (510), peekercpa (540).
Inner Stickler => fluiddruid (515), Hal Briston (515), Mahaloth (515), Red Skeezix (515).
Red Skeezix => fluiddruid (476), NAF1138 (476), Hal Briston (476), glowacks (476).
glowacks => Mahaloth (477), [del]fubbleskag (477-482)[/del], TexCat (477), Crackrat (477), Stanislaus (482).
Normal Phase => [del]fubbleskag (426-494)[/del], fluiddruid (426), Mahaloth (426), [del]Hal Briston (426-466)[/del], NAF1138 (466), Normal Phase (494).
fubbleskag => no votes.
Crackrat => [del]fubbleskag (473-481)[/del], Hal Briston (473), Mahaloth (473), Normal Phase (473), fluiddruid (518).
Stanislaus => [del]fubbleskag (456-484)[/del], Mahaloth (503), TexCat (503), fluiddruid (503), Crackrat (503).
NAF1138 => peekercpa (464), Normal Phase (464).
Net Votes
Mahaloth (9) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, peekercpa, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, glowacks, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Hal Briston (8) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, peekercpa, Idle Thoughts, Mahaloth, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Crackrat.
fluiddruid (7) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Crackrat (3) <= fluiddruid, glowacks, Stanislaus.
TexCat (3) <= TexCat, glowacks, Stanislaus.
NAF1138 (3) <= peekercpa, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase.
glowacks (3) <= Idle Thoughts, Mahaloth, Red Skeezix.
peekercpa (2) <= fluiddruid, Mahaloth.
Stanislaus (2) <= Mahaloth, glowacks.
Normal Phase (2) <= Normal Phase, Crackrat.
fubbleskag (1) <= Idle Thoughts.
Red Skeezix (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Day Three Vote Count
All Votes by Voting Player
fluiddruid => peekercpa (607), Red Skeezix (621), Crackrat (623), [del]NAF1138 (623-627)[/del], TexCat (627).
TexCat => Stanislaus (624), fluiddruid (624), peekercpa (637), NAF1138 (637).
Idle Thoughts => glowacks (603), fluiddruid (603), Crackrat (603), Stanislaus (603).
Inner Stickler => glowacks (601), fluiddruid (601), Crackrat (620), TexCat (620).
Red Skeezix => Stanislaus (615), fluiddruid (615), NAF1138 (615), glowacks (615).
glowacks => Crackrat (611), TexCat (611), Stanislaus (611), fluiddruid (611).
fubbleskag => peekercpa (609), Crackrat (609), TexCat (609), Red Skeezix (609).
Crackrat => no votes.
Stanislaus => Crackrat (589), Red Skeezix (605), TexCat (605), [del]peekercpa (605-628)[/del], Idle Thoughts (628).
NAF1138 => no votes.
peekercpa => no votes.
Net Votes
Crackrat (6) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
TexCat (5) <= fluiddruid, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
fluiddruid (5) <= TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
Stanislaus (4) <= TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
peekercpa (3) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, fubbleskag.
Red Skeezix (3) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
glowacks (3) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix.
NAF1138 (2) <= TexCat, Red Skeezix.
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.
Day Four Vote Count
All Votes by Voting Player
fluiddruid => [del]Idle Thoughts (674-689)[/del], Red Skeezix (675), glowacks (675), [del]NAF1138 (675-689)[/del], Stanislaus (689).
TexCat => fluiddruid (692), Stanislaus (692), NAF1138 (692).
Idle Thoughts => Stanislaus (661), fluiddruid (661), glowacks (661).
Red Skeezix => NAF1138 (678), fluiddruid (678), Stanislaus (687).
Inner Stickler => Stanislaus (691), glowacks (691), TexCat (691).
glowacks => TexCat (677), fluiddruid (677), Stanislaus (677).
Stanislaus => Idle Thoughts (659), NAF1138 (688), fluiddruid (688).
NAF1138 => no votes.
peekercpa => no votes.
Net Votes
Stanislaus (6) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Red Skeezix, Inner Stickler, glowacks.
fluiddruid (5) <= TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Red Skeezix, glowacks, Stanislaus.
glowacks (3) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler.
NAF1138 (3) <= TexCat, Red Skeezix, Stanislaus.
TexCat (2) <= Inner Stickler, glowacks.
Red Skeezix (1) <= fluiddruid.
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.
[/spoiler]
Looking only at final votes, vote stats for each Day:
[spoiler]Day One
Town lynched, 9 votes, 3 scum (33%)
Town:
42 votes, 4 for scum (10%)
12 town, 4 voting for scum (33%), 6 voting for lynch (50%)
Scum:
16 votes, 0 for scum (0%)
4 scum, 0 voting for scum (0%), 3 voting for lynch (75%)
Day Two
Town lynched, 9 votes, 3 scum (33%)
Town:
30 votes, 6 for scum (20%)
10 town, 5 voting for scum (50%), 6 voting for lynch (60%)
Scum:
16 votes, 4 for scum (25%)
4 scum, 3 voting for scum (75%), 3 voting for lynch (75%)
Day Three
Scum lynched, 6 votes, 1 scum (17%)
Town:
20 votes, 14 for scum (70%)
7 town, 7 voting for scum (100%), 5 voting for lynch (71%)
Scum:
12 votes, 3 for scum (25%)
4 scum, 2 voting for scum (50%), 1 voting for lynch (25%)
Day Four
Town lynched, 6 votes, 3 scum (50%)
Town:
12 votes, 5 for scum (42%)
6 town, 3 voting for scum (50%), 3 voting for lynch (50%)
Scum:
9 votes, 1 for scum (11%)
3 scum, 1 voting for scum (33%), 3 voting for lynch (100%)
[/spoiler]An interesting thing stand out to me–50% or more of the town voted for the lynch candidate each Day.
Final votes if only town voted:
[spoiler]Day One
Drain Bead (6) <= fluiddruid, Inner Stickler, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Idle Thoughts, NAF1138.
Hal Briston (5) <= peekercpa, Mahaloth, Inner Stickler, Normal Phase, Idle Thoughts.
Mahaloth (4) <= fluiddruid, peekercpa, Natlaw, Stanislaus.
Idle Thoughts (4) <= peekercpa, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
peekercpa (5) <= fluiddruid, Mahaloth, fubbleskag, Idle Thoughts, NAF1138.
fubbleskag (4) <= peekercpa, Normal Phase, Stanislaus, NAF1138.
fluiddruid (4) <= Mahaloth, Normal Phase, Natlaw, NAF1138.
Natlaw (2) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts.
Stanislaus (0) <= .
NAF1138 (1) <= fubbleskag.
glowacks (1) <= Mahaloth.
Crackrat (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Normal Phase (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Red Skeezix (1) <= Normal Phase.
TexCat (1) <= Stanislaus.
Day Two
Mahaloth (6) <= fluiddruid, peekercpa, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Normal Phase, Stanislaus.
Hal Briston (5) <= fluiddruid, peekercpa, Idle Thoughts, Mahaloth, Inner Stickler.
fluiddruid (4) <= peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Normal Phase, Stanislaus.
Crackrat (2) <= fluiddruid, Stanislaus.
TexCat (1) <= Stanislaus.
NAF1138 (2) <= peekercpa, Normal Phase.
glowacks (2) <= Idle Thoughts, Mahaloth.
peekercpa (2) <= fluiddruid, Mahaloth.
Stanislaus (1) <= Mahaloth.
Normal Phase (1) <= Normal Phase.
fubbleskag (1) <= Idle Thoughts.
Red Skeezix (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Day Three
Crackrat (5) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
TexCat (4) <= fluiddruid, Inner Stickler, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
fluiddruid (2) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler.
Stanislaus (1) <= Idle Thoughts.
peekercpa (2) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag.
Red Skeezix (3) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
glowacks (2) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler.
NAF1138 (0) <= .
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.
Day Four
Stanislaus (3) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler.
fluiddruid (2) <= Idle Thoughts, Stanislaus.
glowacks (3) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler.
NAF1138 (1) <= Stanislaus.
TexCat (1) <= Inner Stickler.
Red Skeezix (1) <= fluiddruid.
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.
[/spoiler]A majority of the players voting for each lynch candidate were town and a majority of the town were voting for each lynch candidate. The only Day scum made a difference is on Day Four, where a town and a scum were tied, with the tie broken by scum.
Day Three is an interesting case. All of the scum collected votes. But, whatever reason, the pressure on them was relieved on Day Four.
Here’s what I reckon good Town strategy would be, and why it seemed so biased towards Town in the long run.
Always have the doctor investigate the top ranked officer who is not otherwise confirmed, regardless if they’re in the brig or not. Have the engineer watch one of the people confirmed by the doctor. If there’s claimed Mates ignore them unless they are also top officers. The XO should act to make sure that if an engineer survives the night, he must not be engineer the next night and that no confirmed of any kind is to ever be engineer at night. If anyone doctor-confirmed is night killed, brig the engineer regardless if he watched or not. If he did watch, lynch the person who he claimed did it. If the doctor identifies anyone as scum and they both survive the night, brig the doctor and lynch the scum. Of course, lynch all liars and anyone who doesn’t go along with the plan.
If you get absolutely everyone on board with that plan, the scum would have to work extremely hard to win. They pretty much have to go along with the plan and hope that other town members don’t. In this game, we had people agree on no plan at all and that all decisions were to be made by individual officers at their own discretion. That was pretty much the best thing I had hoped to hear as scum. When doctors investigated no one at the top of the ranks, the Town had no clue what was coming at all.
Quoth sachertorte:
The first iteration of this game, the Scum stood out like sore thumbs in the voting record. Granted, that’s just one game, and it may be that the Scum that game just weren’t very good at bussing (or decided they didn’t need to: They did after all end up winning). But I’d be loathe to accept the conclusion that multivoting helps Scum hide their intentions, without a lot more evidence the other way.
glowacks, Pleonast’s games tend to be amenable to strategies like that in theory, but the tricky part is that, in practice, it’s very difficult to get people to go along with even a very good plan. “Lynch everyone who doesn’t go along” isn’t very good when half the players aren’t going along, because they don’t understand the plan, or think it goes against the spirit of the game and prefer to do it the “old-fashioned” way, or think that their own personal plan is better, or suspect the person who came up with the plan and therefore think it must be a trap, while meanwhile the genuine Scum see that there are a bunch of Townies not going along, and so cooperate because it’s safe.
I didn’t really like the multi-votes – exactly because of the DrainBead situation. It seems like it tends to lynch everyone’s fourth choice. And it definitely muddles the vote record. Stanislaus tried to do some vote analysis, but ended up saying I was suspicious for voting the vote leaders. I never did understand that. Most people voted for the leaders. That’s why they were the leaders. If he had said I was suspicious because I never voted for scum, I would have agreed, but bwahaha there was no way for him to know that. I do think that’s why Glowacks thought I was so suspicious; he knew I never voted for scum.
To address a question that was raised in the spoiled thread: Why I didn’t investigate glowacks when I was doctor.
Investigations in this game are only as valid as the likiehood that the person reporting the results is town. Inner would have reported it so it would have seemed valid.
If by some chance I had gotten lynched it would have drawn attention to glowacks. The obvious question: Why would scum have picked him to investigate, instead of fluiddruid who voted for every day in the game?
Congrats, scum!
And, sorry, folks. I shouldn’t have signed up. Would have subbed out if Pleo did that.
Yeah, I definitely realize that. I didn’t mean to suggest that it was actually going to happen, I meant that’s how I saw it playing out in my head and why I thought the Town had such a huuuuge advantage. I failed to see until the game started that getting people to agree on a plan is hard when they have no idea whether to trust those people who offer the plan. That no one at all come out with anything resembling my Grand Plan suggests that the Town was afraid of being lynched for offering something too constrictive. That fear of getting lynched early is understandable, but Day 1 there is absolutely nothing to go on and it doesn’t get much better Day 2. Town is quite likely to mislynch those days, so at least get your ideas out there and when you flip Town maybe they’ll think more about what you suggested. It was greatly to the scum’s benefit for the Town to wander aimlessly and not have anything resembling a plan when so much was available for them to use. The Town squandered almost all the tools it was given, and we (the scum) could almost have won without saying a damn thing.
I think people failed to appreciate the implications of the rules and just played it like any other Mafia game. If there’s one major mistake that was made, it was investigating random people and not the officers. If fluid and Tex had been investigated the first two days the Town would have been in a much better position after the same deaths.
Yep.
After the first day, with none of us getting much in the way of votes, the Town being entirely bereft of a plan, and things going rather quietly, we needed to not do anything stupid that would reveal us with the game mechanics. The fubbelskag kill was something we didn’t like having to do since Inner and Idle were more active, but we needed to make it look like we were avoiding the engineer. If we kill Idle (who was ranked third I think), or have Red watch Idle and night kill Inner, Red starts looking suspicious. The only thing that was somewhat risky was killing Normal Phase Night 2, and for all we know peeker watched her, but we were quite afraid of her in the long run and liked the impression it would give.
I didn’t like the forced multi-vote at all. I see in the forbidden thread that Pleo believes that Town players should have suspicions on more than one person, and should be prepared to back those. That’s all very well and good but:
I was forced to develop not two or three but four cases against people. Especially on Day One, this is just an exercise in making bricks without straw. It’s no wonder we lynched Drain - she just became a default vote-dump for Town, and easy cover for Scum. With four votes to make for any of them to count, my votes tended to be: “This person I really think is scum, these two people I think potentially might be scum, and this person I don’t really think is scum but hey, gotta vote for someone.” The problem being that the fourth vote is just as likely to lynch someone as the vote I actually care about. If you look at the results from the first two days, then you’ll see that we didn’t lynch the person we collectively found most suspicious - just the easiest to dump a fourth vote on.
As sach says, Town were pretty much forced to vote for Town. If we were all consistently good enough to find even three scum in four votes each Day, we’d have long since have given up playing Mafia because it was too easy. My best vote was for Crackrat, TexCat, Red - and peeker. So I still voted for Town, even when I got lucky. The rest of my votes were much worse - but even when any of us correctly picked Scum, we then diluted that vote with two or three others for Town. It’s basically impossible to place a vote that differentiates between candidates.
Because of this, it became too easy for Scum to get away with voting for Town. There’s less accountability for votes when you can honestly say that you’re voting because the mod is forcing you to.
Having to make so many cases basically diminished your ability to advocate for your best pick. Even if you were really confident that Crackrat, or Idle(!), were Scum, you couldn’t devote your time to really pushing that lynch, because your vote wouldn’t count unless you found three worse cases and devoted time to making at least some kind of justification for that. And of course Scum can then jump on you and make you answer for a bad case, while ignoring the good one. Having players commit to one case and making their play based on that generates information about them and about the people they suspect. The signal-noise ratio was not in our favour throughout the game. That’s partly our fault, of course, but being forced to devote posts to cases you’re not actually that convinced about is a great way to add to the noise in the thread.
Ultimately my biggest problem with the forced multi-vote is that it takes control of the game away from me. I want to decide how many cases I’m making. I want to decide how many votes I feel like putting out today. I want to decide what my threshold is for making a vote. But I didn’t get to make those decisions, and to be honest, that sucked a little.
Well yeah. That’s what happens if you force Town to vote for Town.
As I said in the forbidden thread, I like the forced multivotes. It gets more of a vote record out there, and it forces people to evaluate multiple players. Yes it does lead to the possibility of second- or third-choices getting lynched, but it also could drive more cooperation to ensure that the first choice gets lynched.
And from the first running of this setup, the public roles make for a very good twist.
Chronos: Scum won in Insipid partly because I didn’t – and still don’t – see the “standing out like a sore thumb” scummy votes. Both times I’ve been in the final three, I chose poorly and the scum voted with me. Please PM me some tips to spot those voting patterns.