so many people smudged in so short a post.
Just caught that on reread… I’m surprised that no-one else has commented on that.
Of course I’m doubting that this game has no more than two scum factions, since I’m pretty sure both wolves and cabalists are anti-town.
About the discussion of the factions: I believe the options have now been explored, but I agree that we can’t determine which one is correct at this point, so it doesn’t help us in Today’s lynch.
Today’s posts themselves also didn’t reveal any hints to me, so I’m starting off with the same vote as Yesterday:
vote willthekittensurvive?
It’s my strongest tell so far, but not rock-solid and might still change.
If anyone has a different case and backs that up with a vote, I’m listening, I don’t intend to get kitten into an uncatchable lead.
Including myself? I was just agreeing with Nanook that we are getting distracted. I am just as guilty as the rest of the people posting about Pleo getting NK’d as a werewolf. So it wasn’t an attempt at a smudge but an attempt to move the conversation on to something that will lead to Scum.
Well, at first I had thought that you were simply wrong, and applied it to you not being part of the two factions. So I shrugged it off. But now that you point it out yourself, it seems like you are a bit overeager to try to make people think you aren’t part of the two factions. :dubious: It seems like a member of the Cabal would want town to think there was only one faction, that one being Wolves. So I am gonna go out on a limb and say I think you are Cabal. Question is, are the Cabal an anti town faction
Well, you’re a bit more clear there. Your initial post said we were talking a lot but not helping in finding scum, and really felt like a smudge against people who were posting. But I accept your explanation.
Also, I disagree about the fact that talking of the factions and pleo’s death as not bear fruit.
Try reading it with the following states of mind. Look at motivation for posts considering the poster:
- As a townie.
- As a cabalists.
- As a werewolf.
- As a member of a potential 3rd, as of yet undiscovered, anti-town faction.
- As a 3rd party non-aligned player.
Look for who made assumptions about what had happened, and consider why that might be their assumption.
Look for who put forth possibilities and ask why they promoted those possibilities above others.
Look for who tried to end the discussion and ponder their motivations.
I’m not saying that any of these things will be fruitful. But I think it always benefits us to process the information at hand in as many ways as we possibly can.
What else would you have us discuss? Put forth some ideas yourself if you don’t think the current conversation is fruitful
The word “one” was a typo. I corrected it because I thought that people might have noticed it and keep it for themselves for now, but possibly bring it up later.
I’m not sure I can follow your last three sentences, why would my correction make anyone think there is only one faction? It was precisely the opposite.
I don’t know what a Death Miller is.
But I have played a couple of games around sach and am going to make an assumption that it will not be gastard. Of course, I say that knowing now that there are at least three factions. Not so simple in the least. So I guess, to a great extent, this game is going to live up to it’s billing.
I am kind of confused regarding the body count last night. I can see a vig, sk, nk of some sort killing. But still I would think that wolves by their standard definition would have a kill. So it had to be redirect. Therefore, there would be two bodies. As it is there has got to be a redirector or a protective power guessed right and the night killer just whacked Pleo.
What in the world am I missing?
I agree with Sitnam that straggler’s failure to claim indicates the cabal is an anti-town faction. While the mod can do whatever he wants, I think it would be highly unusual to name something a cabal and it not be a group. But why were his partner cabalists not able to manipulate the vote away from him? Or were they willing to sacrifice one of their own to make it easier to hide among the town elements.
Also, is it possible that a werewolf could attack people and turn them into werewolves? The player’s individual victory condition would not necessarily have to change (they could still be trying to play for a town win), but the werewolf’s victory would be based on the number of werewolves at the end of the game.
All that being said, I still do not have a lot to go on. I will keep my vote as it was before.
Vote kitten
I think maybe I should not have picked a game named “not-so-simple” for my first game.
It can be difficult to save a teammate when you’re scum. First, you’re outnumbered. Second, you don’t want to seem like you’re trying to save someone. Town players will pick up on that. Also, when that person does eventually die, his protectors will be outed.
Scum often ‘bus’ their teammates to get some Town credibility.
Interesting. A werewolf as a mad bomber? I suppose that’s possible.
You’re making three assumptions in that sentence (actually, half a sentence, because I’ll address the other half separately), all of which seem weird to me. First, you’re assuming that one scum faction knew that another scum faction existed. Second, you’re assuming that the first scum faction knew that Pleo belonged to the second faction. Third, you’re assuming that the first scum faction knew that the second scum faction couldn’t kill. What led you to believe this?
I think this part of the sentence is in response to my other theory:
I see I didn’t express my idea well, so I’ll clarify below. But first, I want to point out that I did not suggest that a scum faction can’t night kill and doesn’t know each other. I agree that this would make a faction too weak. Why would you think this theory involved one scum group not being able to kill, when the first two sentences have the words “both” and “kill/target”?
This, coupled with your misread of the tie rules, makes me think you’re either skimming or intentionally misstating things. In my mind, either option is scummy, so for now I’ll
FOS Sitnam
and based on the response may/may not turn it into a vote.
I didn’t explain it well, so let me try one more time. I was saying that Pleo might have had a role similar to the hacker role in SDMB Mafia. In that game, the scum didn’t know they had an additional member – the hacker. The hacker couldn’t join the scum until he investigated one of them. My theory was that the werewolves targeted Pleo without knowing he was one of them, because he hadn’t joined them yet.
I also want to mention that I still have a lingering suspicion of Seeker.
FOS Ichini
Ichini, it’s unfortunate that you’re coming into the game with a strike against you, but I’m not going to overlook your predecessor’s behavior.
I think you give me too much credit, but I really appreciate the fact you’re playing the game.
A death miller is a townie who shows up scum to any investigations, and in the death scene. Only at the end of the game is his true alignment revealed.
When does the day end?
OOG
RL is a little too busy this week - 6am breakfast meetings - that’s not breakfast, its still the middle of the bloody night!
For the reasons I gave yesterDay here
I’m still going to
vote sitnam
Furthermore once he has a couple of votes on him he begins to make an effort to put suspicion on straggler 454
. You say you find his list of suspicion suspicious because he can pick and choose with it and then you post your own LOS: 490
In it you manage to smudge peek, Nanook, Special Ed and kitten while saying at the same time you don’t have a strong scum read on any of them. You then vote for straggler. Seems to me those four would have made excellent fallback votes if straggler had begun to lose votes.
The fact straggler turned out to be a cabalist is immaterial as it’s now clear there are more than one non town faction in play.
After that there’s a fair bit of Day 2 speculation on what happened last Night which could very well be intended to fill up the page and draw attention away from actually finding scum.
While I think it’s unlikely sitnam’s a cabalist due to his vote on straggler there’s no reason to think he isn’t a werewolf.
This last part isn’t directed at straggler specifically but to everyone. All the speculation is interesting and the reactions to the speculation may prove useful in future Days, however, to put it bluntly, until we have more dead bodies we’re not really going to know anything for certain.
You conveniently left out the first reason why I had a problem with straggler’s LOS, “You didn’t show your work in how your suspects were selected.” I didn’t bring up the two others that voted for me (you and Natlaw) because you both raised points that confimed for you my scumminess, that you wrote them down is a record of your motivations. I wrote what I thought was Nanook’s motivation. Straggler simply skipped this step.
You said I could have easily changed my vote to one of the others that I smudged had the straggler lynch not looked likely, but I don’t see how. I posted #490 late wednesday night the Day’s lynch was just 16 hours away, I said I didn’t have a great scum read on the others listed so it would have been pretty transparent of me to change my mind hours before the lynch.
with about 2 calendar days to go. Here’s where my thoughts keep wandering.
**mental ****guy **and his ‘wolves slip’ and subsequent snuggle by Adrian. Now, it’s been explained as a newbie slip, but with the exposure of werewolves, it’s still pinging me a bit.
A couple of players have implied that there’s more than 2 scum factions. I need to do a re-read on this to see exactly how it came about, but if we do have more than 2, is it PIS?
**kitten **still pings me for the same reasons as before, as does seeker’s replacement.
I’ll try to do a re-read, but I’m in the process of trying to buy a house. Can’t resist the under 5% interest rates.
No smudges are intended, just indicating my investigation targets for the near future. If anyone has comments on these topics, that would be appreciated.
When we last had this discussion, the consensus was that MG’s mention of wolves was no tell since the post he replied to mentioned wolves. Even ok11 who brought it up agreed at the end. Should we open yet another round on that?
And which players have implied that there are more than two scum factions?
Some mentioned another game where there were, but didn’t imply anything about this one as far as I understood, and I asked about “several” scum factions, a word meaning “more than one” to me, in a general question about game mechanics.
a consensus decision does not always equal the correct decision. It hasn’t been brought up in light of the fact that we DO have werewolves. The discussion was before that realization for most of us.
I’m not trying to smudge. I just think it might be interesting to go back and look at the original posts in light of this new information.
I did remember your use of the word ‘several’ I don’t usually use the word several to mean ‘more than 1’ To me, it implies more than 2.
Here’s what a quick websearch for the definition reveals (not that this is definitive)
more than two but fewer than many
Being of a number more than two or three but not many
more than two but not many; of an indefinite but small number
Consisting of a number more than two, but not very many
here is the post you refer to:
It does contain several (more than 2) thoughts;)
I don’t mean this as a smudge, and I’m obviously not even voting or accusing you. To be honest, the thought occurred to me that we could have up to 4 scum factions (with 3 members each, perhaps possessing different powers, and 8 Townies left.) Though I felt 2 or 3 was probably more reasonableSo coming up with the idea isn’t necessarily scummy. I just thought someone leaking PIS might assume it.
OK, I can accept that.
About point one, I don’t want to stifle discussion, as long as it doesn’t overshadow more recent events (of which there haven’t been significant ones so far) that’s ok with me.
The only small problem I have is that you described it as a “newbie slip” when there was a more benign explanation, and to me it wasn’t a slip at all.
About point two, fair enough.
Perhaps as a further data point I’d like to mention that I’m not a native English speaker. In this game there is much nitpicking going on, which I agree can be a way of finding scum, so I need to be a bit more careful with my wording.
Okay. Time for me to place my first vote, then.
Post 314: Sitnam votes to lynch peekercpa merely because he doesn’t like his posting style.
There is no basis in this vote for rooting out scum.
When it this was pointed out to him, Sitnam responded with a series of non sequiturs.
Post 461: Pleonast, whom we know now to be a werewolf, switches his lynch vote to straggler.
Post 490: Posting for the first time since Pleo switched his vote, Sitnam casts aspersions on a number of other players before shifting his lynch vote to straggler. Given straggler’s behavior, Sitnam’s vote is defensible, but I find the timing suspect. I’ll come back to this point in a minute.
Post 576: At the bottom of this post, Sitnam wonders if sarchetorte’s earlier remarks about luck were some sort of tacit admission that our current game came has become “unbalanced”:
For the life of me I can’t see what it is about sarchertorte’s remarks that would lead Sitnam to believe this. However: if Sitnam is a member of the wolf faction, he would know at least how many wolves there are, and how many other players (townspeople/cabal). Someone suggested there were probably 3 wolves to start the game: now only two. Perhaps, with the unexpected and early death of Pleo, Sitnam is feeling a bit outnumbered? Perhaps the wolves are working together with the cabal, and Sitnam has lost two teammates over the course of a single Day?
In post 576 Sitnam again makes reference to “a large amount of townies…”, and when I question him about it, he replies:
This is fair enough, as far as it goes, but I still can’t make the connection between sachetorte’s comment and the number of townspeople. We don’t know how many wolves there are: there could be 10 for all we know. At any rate, this certainly wouldn’t be my first association upon reading sach’s post.
Finally, turning to the relationship between Pleo and Sitnam I suggested above, we have Pleo’s “omnibus” post # 320, in which he outlines his thoughts on several players. He quotes a previous post by Sitnam:
And then responds:
There was something about that response, with the underlined “you” at the end of it, that made me sit up and take notice. I don’t know…if you turn it the right way, hold it up to the light and view it with just the right amount of paranoia, Pleo’s reply could be understood not as a chastisement, but as a coded signal: an encouragement for Sitnam to be more active, lest his lurking draw suspicion down upon him. It’s just a feeling, but I think Sitnam and Pleonast were working in tandem.
unvote sachertorte
vote Sitnam
Sorry, Sitnam. Nothing personal, but you just seem to be the most suspicious player to me at the moment.