Hahahahahahaha.
I meant the ‘third’ part, really. I think it’s because a lot of Zionist organizations say that the ‘third’ designation didn’t come until recently.
Easy, Slugger. It was a little bit of a joke about the Christians in the region. I think I’ve defending plenty of Christians on this board to the point that people mistake me for a male right-wing fundamentalist ______ when I’m really a female liberal weenie atheist ______.
I stand corrected. :o Satisfied?
Thanks for clarifying, I do appreciate it. I don’t like those kind of Christians any more than you do, but I do think the degree to which they exist is exaggerated by a lot of Jews.
“The only reason they [Christians] support Israel is because they hope all the Jews will go there so they can have their Rapture and be saved” is something I hear from a large number of Jews, especially left leaning non-practicing cynical ones. While there are undoubtedly some Christians who really do feel this way, I think the majority of Christians in America and elsewhere support Israel because Israel is (well, ok, seems like) an alpha country that’s badass and represents a new kind of Jew who has the ability to fight and win wars, and they respect that.
Nobody respects this, though they may pity it. But people do respect this and this.
When the face of the Jewish people is tough and militaristic, people admire and respect it. When the face of the Jewish people is prostrate and defenseless, nobody respects it.
I thought Mohammed was married?
Yes, those of us serious about it believe that.
Also, some people on this thread keep saying the Quran was written by one man, Muhammad.
In reality it was written until years after he’d died based on recollections of what he’d said and copies of his sayings people had written down.
I’m also surprised by claims that Islam is closer to Judaism than Christianity.
I think just the opposite is true. Muslims don’t believe Jesus was God, but according to tradition he was the Messiah and he will return on the Day of Judgement to battle the Anti-Christ and Muslims also accept the virgin birth.
Furthermore, in addition to the already mentioned fact that Islam like Christianity but unlike Judaism is an evangelizing universal religion. Also Islam’s view of heaven, hell and Satan is almost identical to Christian beliefs and has little in common with Jewish views.
The Quran may not, historically, have actually been written by one man, but it was attributed to one man. Same with the Hadaths - they gain authority from their attribution to a single founder (whether or not they actually were his ‘sayings’ or invented later).
You see the same in the concern over the descent of lines of authority in the Caliphs - the sunni-shia split, the various shia sects, etc. all originally had to do, ostensibly, with controverises over the identity of the “correct” descendant of the founder.
As a religion, Islam is heavily marked by a concern for authority and authenticity. Judaism, not so much, which is a main distinguishing feature.
Islam is more similar theologically to Judaism than Christianity because in both Judaism and Islam, strict monotheism is key. It is true that Islam honours Jesus as a prophet, but that is really a minor difference compared with considering him a part of the Trinity.
You’re projecting a little here. A lot, actually.
I think you’re wrong about this. Evangelicals, by and large, support Israel because they think the Temple has to be restored for Jesus to come back (not because of the Rapture, which is a quirky, non-Biblical, minority belief among Christians). Christian fundies do not respect the Jewish religion as legitimate, and they think that all Jews will eventually submit to Jesus or burn (at the end of the day, there can be only one). I believe you’re also completely imagining things if you think respect for Jews as some of kind of military badasses plays any role. America protects Israel militarily. The attititude is paternalistic, not respectful. Israel exists under the wing of American protection and financing. It doesn’t require any toughness to send cruise missiles into Palestinian neighborhoods, and if the US decided to switch sides and support replacing Israel with a Palestinian state, it would be done within a matter of weeks. Modern military power comes entirely from the tech and the money. The people have nothing to do with it.
In addition to Malthus’ point that Islam and Judaism share a closer view of the nature of God, it is probably worth noting that they are also united by both being much more “legalistic” faiths. Kosher/halal just for one example - both emphasize far more rules to live by in everyday life than Christianity.
Of course in the end all the Abrahamic faiths are, understandably, pretty close in a global view. Whether one is closer to one than the other is at a certain point probably splitting hairs.
ETA:
I’d respectfully disagree.
Beg pardon?
The tradition is that it is all the words of Muhammed, though, so he is the traditional “author” whether or not he physically wrote the words down.
The Christian Trinity is utterly alien to both Islam and Judaism. That fundamentally changes the definition of God, which is a much larger diffeernce than believing in a virgin birth. Furthermore, theIslamic definition of “Messiah” is completely different from the Christian definition. in Christianity, the Messiah is not just God, but a redeemer of sins. That title has neither of those meanings in either Judaism or Islam. Jesus was not “the Messiah” in Islam the way that Christians use that term. In Islam he was a prophet chosen (“anointed”) to preach God’s word and was given power by God to heal, which corresponds to the use of that word in the Hebrew Bible to sometimes refer to other mortals who are specially chosen by God.
Theologically speaking, Judaism and Islam are far closer to each other than either is to Christianity. Christians went way off the reservation with the deification of Jesus. neither Islam or Judaism deifies messiahs.
First of all: not all Christians are fundementalists and evangelicals. Why do people always confuse the two? This is like thinking that all Jews are hasidic. It’s not true.
Secondly: I’m going to guess that you don’t actually socialize with many right-wing, Christian, rural, gun-loving people. I do. And they all tend to respect Israel. And it has nothing to do with Biblical prophecy. It’s because they think the Israeli military is strong and admirable. Why won’t you trust me on this? When you’ve got some redneck at a gun range in rural Indiana with a camo tank top and bulldog tattoo talking about the exploits of the Israeli Special Forces, this is not because he’s hoping the Jews will restore a temple so Jesus can come back. It’s because he’s impressed with Jews who can fight wars and win.
I think the IDF is cool =/= I support a pro-Israel foreign policy.
I mean, lots of people think the Gurkhas are cool, but who gives a shit about Nepal?
I’m not confusing the two, but the ones that are passionate supportes of Isrtael tend to be fundies.
You would be guessing completely wrong. My wife’s whole family is like that. Most of my mother’s family is rural, southern rednecks. I know the culture very well. How much time have you spent in Southern Baptist churches? I was raised in them.
They’re patting you on the head.
I’m sure they say that stuff to you, but I don’t need to rely on secomd hand knowledge of these kinds of people. I’m pretty sure I know the culture better than you do - especially the religious culture. I’ve heard what they say when the Jew leaves the room.
I do not publicly identify myself as Jewish so, no, they’re really not patting me on the head.
Ask them if Jews go to Heaven.
Here’s another major difference between modern Judaism and Islam: discussions about Judaism tend to get hijacked into arguments about America’s policy in respect to Israel, and discussions about Islam tend to get hijacked into arguments about America’s policy in respect to terrorism. 
Aside from the rural Protestants I mention, I also know conservative Irish and Italian Catholics (and one guy who actually converted from Methodism to Catholicism) who support Israel.These Catholics aren’t evangelical types, they’re not into all that prophecy stuff - but they still support Israel. These guys, if they lived in the 50s, probably would have been anti-Semites. They respect toughness, and Israel has - if not now, in past wars - demonstrated that.
Jews say Jews don’t go to heaven. 
My church is one of the ones who thinks about Israel in Rapture terms, but it’s not that they’ll die. They’re the 144,000 righteous people that will survive the Tribulation with provisions from God. They can’t go in the Rapture because they don’t believe in Jesus, but they will not die. They are God’s chosen people and will be protected.
Muslims, on the other hand, are worshiping Satan.
Note: Views of “my church” do not necessarily reflect the views of the poster. I’d have flat out said I believed it if that were the case.
I don’t really think Americans respect Jews because of Israel. Americans respect Jews because of the Family Guy-esque stereotype of Jewish accountants/lawyers. They like Israel because Israel is a thorn in the side of a bunch of Hajji Americans dislike.
The whole “toughness” thing makes no sense. Jews are as tough as anyone would be when given the consistent and massive surpluses, implicit and explicit protections, from major world military powers. France funded Israel massively in the beginning, Truman and Eisenhower gradually funded Israel more and more, not out of any respect for Jewish toughness but because of a desire to keep Israel from becoming a client state of the Soviets. During the Cold War it was always a fear that any country we didn’t support, the Soviets would. Syria would be a military power if it had been propped up since the 1940s by first rate military powers, and Israel wouldn’t exist if Western Europe + the United States didn’t tacitly allow it and support it throughout the past 60 years.
