Major Leagues v Negro Leagues

I’ve been hearing many baseball fans bitching now that it has been revealed that Babe Ruth will NOT be named the #1 Greatest Ahlete of All Time by ESPN.

But many African Americans are quick to point out that Josh Gibson hit 970 home runs in the Negro Leagues v Ruth’s 713 (or was it 14)?

Ruth backers retort by questioning how good the teams were in the Negro Leagues back then.

I say if you look at the top 10 non-pitching baseball players of integrated baseball, 60% of them would be African-American (I’m not going to get into that list- that would be a new thread- pluds I dont want this to turn into a race issue. This would make me think that maybe the Bambino and Ty Cobb etc might have been very, very overshadowed had baseball not been segregated in the first half of the century.

What is the Straight Dope on this debate, baseball fans? I tend to agree that Ruth was overrated. But while I do not qurestion the ability of African-American players in the Negro Leagues, I am not sure about the QUALITY of the teams and leagues.

Is there a Negro team that lets say, could have beaten the Yankees in the 20s had there been a MLB-NL World Series? Or were there just too many Negro League teams with a diluted talent pool?
http://pwbts.com


http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/parliament/1685/

The Negro Leagues themselves had lots of great ballplayers and terrific teams. Many white ballplayers said that Gibson was the best catcher in baseball, period. The rpoblem with the numbers is that they often include games against semi-professional and amateur teams. If Babe Ruth had played an extra 60 gaems a year against the St. paul Saints or the Durham Bulls or such, I think that he could have inflated his stats a bit.

Bucky

During the days of the Negro league, there were many exhibition games between Negro teams and MLB teams. According to Ken Burns “baseball” the win records were about 400 for the Negro league; 160 or so for MLB. The numbers are a little off, but the percentages are about the same.

Maybe the Negro teams felt they had more to prove in these games and took them more seriously, but after a few defeats I feel the Major league would get tougher.

By all means, rail against the injustice of segregation. By all means, sing the praises of great black athletes like Josh Gibson, who were denied a chance to show what they could do. But don’t kid yourself: the great white players would NOT have been hurt in the least if they’d had to face black competition. Oh sure, a lot of mediocre white players would have been replaced by superior black players, but if you think that white stars would have beenadversely affected, you’re either 1) blinded by political correctness, or 2) utterly ignorant of the nature of baseball.

Let’s START by assuming the anti-white argument has some merit. In 1943, not only were there no black players in major league baseball, even the best WHITE players were all in the military. At that point, with nothing but inferior white players in the major leagues, the N.L.'s top hitter was Stan Musial, with an average of .357. Well, by 1948, the war was over, all the best pitchers were back in the big leagues, and so naturally, Musial’s average plummeted all the way down to… 376??? Uh… well, never mind that. THe important thing is, by 1957, the National League had lots of hard-throwing black pitchers, and lots of great black outfielders to run down Stan’s fly balls. SO of course, by 1957, the best hitter in the National League was… Stan Musial???

Well, forget about hitting. Let’s look at pitching. In 1947, the best pitcher in the National League was Warren Spahn. But of course, Warren inflated his stats by striking out inferior white players. By 1961, the N.L. was filled with superb black hitters, so of course, the best pitcher in the N.L. was… Warren Spahn???

How can this be, if the “white players’ stats were inflated because they didn’t face the black players” theory has any merit? If you can name me ONE SINGLE white star of the 1940s whose stats deteriorated with the onset of integration, I’ll reconsider my position.

One thing racialists tend to forget is this: not all the great black players would have been OPPOSING Babe Ruth!!! Wouldn’t the Yankees have signed some great black players of their own? You say Cy Young wouldn’t have won 500 games if he’d had to face black hitters? Well, I say if he’d had a Josh Gibson or a Henry Aaron on HIS side, he might have won 600! You think Babe Ruth never would have had so many RBI’s if he’d had to bat against Paige? I say, if the 1927 Yankees had a Lou Brock or a Rickey Henderson leading off, he’d have driven in a lot MORE runs. You think Ted WIlliams couldn’t have batted .400 if he’d had to face pitchers like Bob Gibson and FErgie Jenkins? I say, if he’d had a great black hitter like WIllie Mays batting behind him, he’d have gotten better pitches to swing at, and might have batted HIGHER!

A rising tide lifts all boats. That’s what Ruth’s detractors conveniently forget.