Hi everyone,
I am writing a graphic novel, and I was wondering if there is any way to manufacture sabot rounds without using uranium, or any other rare metal.
Is it possible to use iron?
Also, if there is a better tank round to use against 150 foot tall flying war droids, I’d really appreciate it if you’d let me know.
Thanks!
How about shell sized nukes?
That’d be pretty cool.
Well,sabot rounds has been used before the invention of depleted Uranium. It is merely a way of firing a smaller calibre round then the gun barrel supports, by using a casing (the sabot itself). These were originally made of wood.
So yeah, you could make a sabot round consisting of a smaller iron ball (say a 10-pound ball), and shoot it from a 13-pound barrel with a wooden casing, thus achieving a higher muzzle velocity then you would from a 10-pound barrel.
What time frame/tech is your story set in?
As noted by abel29a, the distinguishing feature of a sabot round is the sabot, not the composition of the projectile it carries - which could be made of any handy material (the denser, harder and tougher the better).
Will depend on their properties. Flying targets typically are fast and thus hard to hit, but once hit are often brought down by relatively minor damage. This indicates that a bunch of small, high-speed projectiles would be the way to go.
It depends on how much armor you have to penetrate more than anything.
I believe the Iraqis and Russians used to make maraging steel long rod penetrators for their APFSDS rounds, while the US uses DU, and much of the rest of the world uses some sort of tungsten alloy (which isn’t that rare).
The main thing is that the steel penetrators just don’t have the performance of the other types- they’ll still take out a 1950’s vintage tank, but won’t do anything to speak of to the frontal arc of a Western tank.
Depending on your war droids’ armor thickness, plain old HEAT rounds might be more effective, and wouldn’t be affected by velocity loss with distance.
Or, for a more interesting way to write about battle damage, HESH rounds might be interesting, and probably the easiest makeshift solution.
(google any of the acronyms for more info)
Flying 150 foot long war droids? I would say a nuclear tipped Nike or Ajax missile. I don’t now if the Patriot cAn carry an atomic warhead.
This. It depends on how hard the science is in a world with 150 foot tall flying war droids. Sabot would be extreme overkill for the penetration needed for anything passing as armor on something 150 feet tall that flies and far from the optimal type of round to use. You can penetrate tissue paper with a DU sabot, but you can penetrate it with a 12 gauge as well. Modern anti-aircraft missiles use continuous-rod warheads; a cylinder of rods welded together surrounding the explosives. The rods expand as a solid ring that eventually breaks. In a more science-bound sci-fi this is the way to go as it is in the real world. If you want to build something that flies, you want to keep the weight down as much as possible; the airframe is made from aluminum, not titanium.
Of course that’s no fun so science goes out the window in favor of fiction and ‘traditionally’ 150 foot tall flying war droids have to be more heavily armored than battleships.
Wow thanks everyone, that’s awesome! The war droids are not particularly well armoured. Probably with a standard tank armour, since they fly and are the size of (probably 747s) with their wings out. Probably can’t be that well armoured, besides, these war droids don’t have conventional weapons, their primary weapon is intimidation other than heat rays and sound cannons, hence the skeletal wasp-ostrich, bird of prey type design.
They swoop on enemies like juggernaut eagles, so as to get close enough to blast with tank rounds. It is set in the 2300’s after a fourth world war. I know, it doesn’t make much sense, technologically speaking, but I plan on drawing the most epic battle scene ever drawn, I swear to god. Trust me it’ll look awesome. I’d gladly post a picture to show you all the scope of these droids that need to be taken down, but I can’t post any picture.
I can’t use any nuclear tipped rounds, for several reasons. The rounds are manufactured pretty primitively, hence the makeshift part. That’s why I asked about iron. Steel though, maybe. I just looked up dense metals and steel isn’t one of them.
I will look up the hesh round.
Thanks very much everybody! I’m recommending this forum to everyone I know!
Now that we have a better description, I’d look up Canister and Beehive rounds as well; modern day 120mm canister sounds like powerful medicine for one of those droids you describe.
No conversation mentioning epic but impractical and beehive rounds could be complete without mentioning the Common Type 3 Sankaidan Anti-Aircraft Shell for the 18.1" naval rifles of the Yamato and Musashi. There’s no evidence that they actually shot anything down, but they were the largest anti-aircraft shells ever. From the link:
You’re using the terminology incorrectly; the sabot is the expendable ‘packaging’ piece that holds, centers, and guides your penetrator down the bore of the gun. And yes, they can be made of other things besides DU. HEAT rounds are effective anti-armor rounds, with some newer (well, late 80s) incorporating tandem warheads to help punch through reactive armor. Neither are effective against anti-aircraft applications because you need to be *dead . . . spot . . . on. . . * with aim. Imagine hitting a modern-day hummingbird with a rifle.
Xema has the right idea. For flying machines, assuming they’re relatively lightweight–and by your own admission not very well armored–you need a warhead with frag, to help shred wing surface and/or engines. Think of hitting that hummingbird with a shotgun blast. There are mechanical-time fuzes that detonate at a preset height on HE/Frag projectiles. Basically, fire grapeshot on a time fuze to detonate at/near the enemy. Your target’s vulnerability is greater, it takes you less time to aim and fire, and will cripple anything that flies, by either ripping holes in wings, poking holes in critical engine parts, or bending/breaking framework.
Tripler
I am knowledgeable about munitions. Part of the real-life job.
Full-caliber kinetic steel rounds have been around even before WW2. If you’re such a miser with regard to the expensive metals, you can make a bodkin round (sub-caliber sabot) using a tungsten carbide or cobalt head attached to a steel shaft.
Kinetic energy rounds can be made out of many things. One form of IED used in the most recent conflicts was the EFP explosively formed projectile. It usually used copper discs to form KE rounds that could penetrate armor at short ranges. The concept has been around for a long time and was in US Army manuals in the 50s. If you having a low tech force going against those aliens you might want to look into that.
If I were defending America from a horde of invading alien robots, I would spend my time building explosively formed penetrators for shaped-charge IEDs… for all the same reasons the Iraqis used them against us.
If you’re trying to shoot down fast, non-tough things, you want s shotgun. Maybe you can make your tanks into something like a blunderbuss, firing a big cloud of scrap metal into the sky!