Okay, I’ll take that in spite of it being a non-answer. But to use your prior reasoning , “significantly more” does not always equal a lot in totality. Until I have a rather exact answer, “significantly more” could mean “more black black fathers in jail, AND more black fathers who aren’t and just didn’t stick around”.
This is like the third time that you have objected to they. IN this instance"they" would happen to be the subject that has been identified over and over throughout this thread.
So find a different schtickt to go with other than some imaginary made up they vs us.
You said “they”. And you don’t realize it, but whenever you say something negative about “the black community”, you’re saying something negative about my wife, even though you’ve never met her. You’re saying something negative about every black person in America, when the vast majority are perfectly decent people. So why are you doing that? And what are you suggesting that my wife do? Or every other black person do? It doesn’t make sense, what you’re doing. And you’re not even trying to explain it. I know this is a common thing on the right – to criticize “the black community”, or “black culture”, but it’s bullshit. And it’s incomprehensible bullshit. It doesn’t even make sense if I accept it. If I accept it, what is my wife supposed to do?
I think what Kearsen1 wants is for the good black people to walk up to the bad black people and say “cut that out”. And keep doing that until the bad black people see the error of their ways and become good black people.
Close to that:
What I want is for people to stop excusing all the bad behavior under the guise of well they had it bad before.
I want people to realize that everyone has choices, sometimes they make bad ones, and the black community continues to make more of the bad ones than the rest of the population and this is factual. So what we get in return are excuses for the WHY, because there is no defense that it ISN’T.
I have stated many times, that I can be persuaded to see things that need doing to HELP. But instead of doing anything themselves, they (and you and those like you) want to assign all blame ELSEWHERE.
And I am sure your wife is a sweet person with a charming personality so I have said NOTHING about her as an indivudual, but you keep trying to make things personal, which leads to the need to defend.
When you realize that there is nothing to defend, then you can accept the true things, work on the suppositional things and get some damn help in ways that work for everyone.
And iiandyiii, i have explained it very clearly, you need to step back and read with comprehension instead of the blind defense goggles and you’ll understand better methinks. All i read in your posts is shifting of blame, the right, the racists, the white men. ANYBODY but you or the ones you’re defending.
Better socialization for some poor kids couldnt hurt. Stress the value of education for one thing.
I think what he means is that as long as there is one black person who made a bad decision that he can point to, he can smear the entirety of all black people for allowing that person to exist.
I could be wrong though, he is welcome to clarify.
You’re not saying anything about her as an individual, but you are saying that “the black community” (of which she is a part, based on your own definitive) has responsibility for certain bad things, and is making “bad choices”.
So what’s my wife’s role in that? Please explain. If she’s a member of that community, than she must bear some of the responsibility, right? She’s at least partially responsible for those bad choices you assert the community makes, right? If not, then why are you putting this on the whole community?
I seriously don’t understand this. If the community is at fault, then who is responsible, who needs to change, and what are they supposed to do? Just use my wife as an example. Is she partially at fault? What is she supposed to do to fix it?
1? ONE? Srsly? The black community is as responsible for their woes as the entire white population is racist…
It’s been said before, but I’ll put my take on it. Lack of opportunity wasn’t all that was broken. When blacks were denied opportunities for… let’s say the 100 years from the Civil War to the Civil Rights Era, they weren’t just denied the financial rewards of economic success during that century. They were denied the ability to develop the social and economic tools to take advantage of future opportunity. They didn’t have a history of educational, economic and political success to draw upon when these new opportunities were opened.
In 1970, a 40 year old black man may have had the whole of the American Dream open to him, but he’s been a janitor for the last 20 years, he had a second rate education, no college, no savings. His kids aren’t going to the good white school, even if they did, he can’t help them with their studies, he doesn’t have money for tutors, he barely has money for rent, and forget about college… what janitor can afford college for his kids?
You can say with honesty that this man has the ‘same’ opportunity as a white man to be a business owner, a real estate tycoon, a senior manager. The ‘same’ opportunity to send his kids to college as white men… but it’s naive honesty. It’s a veneer of equality, not real equality.
I don’t disagree with that take Cheessteak, I just don’t find much to be done about it that isn’t inherently unfair to others.
Still no reply to my questions about what it means, and what we’re supposed to do with, assertions like “the black community makes bad choices”. I still can’t tell how this is useful to anyone at all, or what it’s supposed to lead to, even if the supporting assertions were accurate (which I don’t believe).
This is very different than blaming Black Americans for their situation. It’s recognition that their inability to grasp Opportunity isn’t due to a moral failing on their part, but is a result of what White Americans denied them for such a long time.
If we consider fairness, does it make sense to say that we are “fixing racism” by letting Black Americans compete for educational, economic, and political success against White Americans who, thanks to racism, are better equipped for the competition? In addition, the reason we don’t do more is because we don’t want White Americans to be unfairly treated during this competition for success.
I’m cringing just reading that.
We aren’t really talking about assigning blame so that we don’t have to do anything. We are talking about getting some acceptance of blame so that the issues that plague the black community (the ones that can be addressed from INSIDE itself) can be addressed. The first step to fixing it is acceptance. They have had and continue to have too much representation in BIG issues that hamper their fiscal evolution . The single family system, the drug involvement, the incarceration rate ALL contribute to keeping them downtrodden.
Affirmative action is in place, and isn’t going away anytime soon, so we do have a system in place to elevate them and even though I see affirmative action (at times) as unfair, I can certainly see your argument as truth.
What I am after isn’t excuses, I am after acceptance by the community themselves and actions to fix the interior problems that plague it. Instead all we have been told is how it is the white mans fault that the black community has those issues. We didn’t choose to have an out of whack birthrate for single mothers, we didn’t choose to be overrepresented in prison for them. If the only excuse you can offer is racism, I am really not interested because I see racism as something that can be liquidated (if proven) and has been already legislated against.
And iiandyiii. willful ignorance isn’t cute, it isn’t funny and I have tried explaining to you, in detail, the problems i see in the black community (that individuals do and make bad choices, AGAIN SOME DO AND SOME DON’T, but when you have a LOT more that do the problem ISN’T someone else, it’s interior to that community) FIX IT, speak out about it, accept it
Yes, but here’s the thing:
“They” didn’t choose those things either.
How is this different to #notallmen etc…
Oh they didn’t eh. no choice at all. They ALL made individual choices, again SOME MADE GOOD SOME DON’T, but a good amount (an over-represented amount did not make good choices) This is where I get off the bus. No not all men, no not all women, no not all black people, no not all anyone.
For some of you others who don’t willingly stick fingers in your ears when you hear something that doesn’t align with your staunch views, I would be in favor of things brought up via another thread.
“Jobs/business investment programs
Education/childcare investment
Spur public investment/institutions in affected areas”
Yes, but here’s the thing, you are judging those who didn’t make bad choices by the same metric as those who did. You are saying that the people that did not make bad choices are responsible for the ones who did.
If that is not what you are saying, then why do you keep saying “black community” as if that means anything except to hold the black community responsible for the actions of all of its members.
If you are ready to stop calling on the “black community” to “fix itself”, and instead realize that it is individuals who are making bad choices, not the community, then we can move on.
So, either take responsibility for everything bad that any white person does, or stop expecting black people to take responsibility for everything bad that any black person does.
I will accept the responsibility for fixing things that white people are over-represented in. As should any other group.
I am being judged, why shouldn’t I also be able to judge? You make judgements every single day about people you know nothing about (like me being white)