Malcolm X on white liberals

I’m not sure I get this.

I mean, I get it if you are a young, headstrong, pissed-off guy but if you are a person trying to make life better for your group of people then this makes no sense.

I never understood Malcolm-X’s antisemitism. White Jews had been involved in black civil rights since the early 20th century. And he hates them?

I get that the black experience is wholly different from the Jews (or most anyone else). I get that Jews and blacks and whoever would never see eye-to-eye on all issues. Hell, if you’ve ever been in a serious relationship you know it is impossible for two people who love each other to always be on the same page with everything.

But that does not mean you cannot make common cause. Work together on the things you do agree about. Get laws passed fixing inequality. Even-out the disparity between schools. Fix laws that predominantly put black men in prison and perpetuates slavery and so on. These are fundamental building blocks both sides would agree to.

There are so, so many places black people and white liberals agree upon and I think they are among the most important things this country needs to get settled.

Once that is done then break-up and bitch about the other stuff but always remember to keep those things at the base in place.

Together we stand, divided we fall kind of thing.

Malcolm-X wasn’t helping anyone and likely causing more harm than good despite his intentions.

As I recall in my high school years, from his Biography Malcolm X had a serious problem with women also. What the hell does that have to do with reality?

I find white liberals to be very hypocritical. Like for example, being against segregation but putting their own kids in white schools and living in white neighborhoods. And then when they complain about the US and how racist it is and how they will move, they choose to move to countries even whiter like Canada or Sweden.

I have to look around for it but there was a list called “70 things Whites can do for Blacks” or something like that. Of course, none of them involved putting their kids in a black school and was mostly buying this or that book or giving money to certain groups.

So thats white liberals. Dont actually do anything but its ok because giving money to buy a Black Lives Matter shirt makes them ok.

Sort of like rich environmentalists who own their own jet but its ok because they purchase eco credits or something.

It is no surprise people want to live in nice places and send their kids to nice schools. Such places do not have to be exclusively white to be nice.

Hell, I used to live across the street from one of the most sought-after elementary schools in Chicago. It was incredibly diverse and that is part of what makes it amazing. Of course, every kid there has super-hyper wealthy parents. The head of the consulates in Chicago send their kids there.

Heck, Harvard is diverse.

The point is not to avoid people of color, the point is to have nice schools and places to live. For that, fixing inequities would be good.

I am surprised this bugs you. It is a market solution to environmental issues.

No one but the most fringey of people thinks we should stop all human industrial activities and move back in to the trees.

Carbon credits are seen even by conservatives as one of the best solutions out there. Let the market sort things out. Cap & Trade.

What’s not to get? Malcolm in his earlier NoI phase supported an extreme version of religio-racial separatism, and even in spring 1964 was still very distrustful of white legislative efforts to pass the Civil Rights Act (that filibuster lasted what, two months?).

From his strongly disillusioned viewpoint, it was natural to feel that black liberation was “a process only for black people”, because he had a very low opinion of the commitment and sincerity of white people to actually do anything about dismantling segregation.

I’m not claiming he was right, I’m just saying that his biases were to a large extent understandable given his background and experiences.

What, you think that the only, or the primary, relations between American Jews and American blacks up through the mid-20th century were the brotherhood of struggle for civil rights? That’s naively overlooking a huge part of lived black experience: for example, as passionately described in this famous essay by the writer James Baldwin.

All the criticisms that Malcolm X and other black militants applied to the “white liberals” of the OP, whose support for black civil rights they considered half-hearted, inadequate, and fundamentally insincere, apply just as much to white liberal Jews.

Again, I’m not claiming that militants like Malcolm X were right about that, nor am I defending black antisemitism in any form. I just think that not being able to understand where militant black antisemitism was coming from in the early 1960s reflects immense naivete and/or ignorance of contemporary black experience of oppression.

Sure, and I think that the solidarity between black people and white liberals nowadays is far, far greater than it was in Malcolm X’s day over a half-century ago. There are still many areas of distrust and disagreement, which conservatives are desperately doing their best to widen by raking up and spreading around 55-year-old diatribes, but there’s a lot more common ground than there used to be.

It’s not so black and white (ha). I don’t believe African Americans are overwhelming willing to cast their lot with white conservatives. Why don’t we focus on why that is?

I’m not defending hypocrisy among some white liberals (or anybody else), but I can’t agree that some white-privileged hypocrisy is necessarily worse than outright white-supremacist bigotry and discrimination. If you’re going to openly embrace anti-black racism, the fact that at least you’re not being hypocritical about it is not much of a redeeming feature.

Furthermore, I’m skeptical that white liberals in general are really as hypocritical as you believe. For example, white liberals are certainly intermarrying with non-whites, and particularly with blacks, at much higher rates than white conservatives are: “The map of interracial marriage looks remarkably similar to a map of Hillary Clinton voters.”

White liberals certainly still have a long way to go in getting their personal practices to line up with their anti-racist principles, but white conservatives just as certainly are not in much of a position to criticize them. By pretty much all metrics of opinion and behavior, white conservatives on average are significantly more racist than white liberals.

Not hardly.

White liberals sometimes are totally clueless about the down to earth realities of the relationship.

I’ve been in black owned restaurants and bbq joints where the place was filled with redneck white guys. Why? The food is great and and closest to “down home cookin” they like.

Another, religion. Conservative whites and blacks share a common Christian faith while liberal whites are most often atheist.

Finally many conservative whites and blacks share a common southern rural heritage.

Videos:

Black men accept the Alabama flag (which has the confederate flag on it).

Black Girl reacts to Alabama’s song “Song of the South”.

Black man reacts to “Sweet Home Alabama”.

Now in the above videos, the liberal white mindset says the blacks should be all “Hell No” and that everything southern and showing the confederate flag is all racist but… they are not.

The problem that was highlighted by Malcolm X, IMO, was pretty much what I said in a different thread. The problems that plague black America are in 3 forms, problems they can stop, problems they can change, and problems they need help changing.
If it isn’t “black culture” that creates the unwed mother crisis, if it isn’t “black culture” that prompts rappers to denigrate women, promote violence, and sensationalize the drug trade, then what is it?

Because that is one thing that needs to change.

The unwed mother crisis, creates or perpetuates a poverty cycle that affects the education gap. The education gap perpetuates poverty.

White liberals mean well, I am sure they do but no one, and I do mean no one, likes to be told how to fix THEIR problems or talked down to. Black culture has created and perpetuates TODAY problems that they themselves could stop. They need to work on it from the inside

Racist laws that are written by white liberals, like AA need to go away. Racist policies need to be torn apart, diversity “quotas”, diversity for the sake of diversity needs to stop. This is attempting to fix an outcome that will never be “fair” unless or until it is actually fair. When a black student does as well as some other student, they get rewarded with whatever, acceptance into school, a job, etc

One glaring failure of white liberals is NOT promoting a 2 parent household. The data is in, has been in and will likely always be in that 2 parent households:

  1. Make more money, lessening poverty
  2. Kids do better in school, 2 parents have more time to devote to helping
    40 Facts About Two Parent Families | Studies and Statistics

An analysis of out-of-wedlock births in the United States (birth rates of unwed black mothers is 91/1000, for white mothers its 12/1000

That is a staggering disparity.

Yeah, uh, that’s not what Malcolm X was getting at. He appears to have been saying that conservatives and liberals are both wolves, and he prefers the conservatives because they don’t put on sheep’s clothing. Better to wear the hood outright than to hide it behind your back.

He may have been correct at the time, but it’s 100% a faulty analysis for today. Proof? CONSERVATIVES ARE CITING MALCOLM X.

You can certainly have your own opinion about the causes and solutions of social problems in the black community, but you’re entirely mistaken if you imagine that Malcolm X agreed with you about them. As I posted upthread:

I’m not claiming that Malcolm X’s own proposed solutions to black problems would have worked, but it’s ridiculous to try to posthumously co-opt him as somehow prefiguring or endorsing your proposed solutions.

Conservatives and libertarians nowadays are just recycling their own standard “bootstrapping” policy suggestions for black communities and trying to stick Malcolm X’s name on them.

You’ve seen white guys eating bbq in restaurants owned by black people? Really? This is your argument for conservatives not being as racist as the hypocritical liberals make them out to be?

Seriously?

Oops!

In his defense, that’s probably the strongest evidence he could find for a lack of racism among conservatives: most conservatives aren’t so racist that they’ll literally refuse to eat food touched by a black person.

I mean, I guess he could claim that 11 am on a Sunday morning is no longer the most segregated hour in American life, because now at least 20% of churches aren’t overwhelmingly monoracial, so I guess progress? At least they’re better than those liberal atheists because something something.

These statistics have been misused for years and years to denigrate black people.

It’s a canard.

On a per capita basis, about half as many unmarried black women now give birth compared to 50 years ago. And it’s been going down steadily for many years, aside from a few blips. To repeat, out-of-wedlock births among black women has been going down for decades. In fact, it’s at the lowest point in the history of the statistic (at least at the time of this article, 2013).

If “unwed black mothers” is the problem, then black people have been steadily correcting it for decades. And yet society still treats them like crap. Which makes me suspect that it’s not unwed black mothers that are the problem, but how black people are treated by society.

Understanding the voting interests of black folks in America is incredibly easy:

  • Group R consists of ALL of the racists in America with some other less prominent folks thrown in. Not so coincidentally, group R has no problem allowing their racist contingent to help set the policies their group will pursue.
  • Group D at least attempts to give lip service to the various causes that are important to black folks even if they put little energy and effort into effecting actual change.

The question shouldn’t be why do 90+% of black folks vote democrat, it should be what the hell is wrong with the other 10%?!?

That being said, I actually agree with Urbanredneck in that white liberals are often extremely hypocritical when you compare what they claim to believe vs the way they actually live. But I say it’s better to team up with the hypocrites than to team up with the racists.

If that is true, then great! But it isn’t society treating them like crap iiandyiii, it’s life and the life choices which are unfailing equal. When you make bad choices, whether tha is wife, mother of child, job, or other, Life has a way of making it known that it was a bad choice.

BTW, what is a good place to go see the actual statistics of TODAY about these items?

Malcolm X had to promote a divisive discourse as it supported his own purpose and agenda.

Allow me to educate you about the “realities of the relationship.”

In my limited experience, even the most racist of white folks can tolerate black folks so long as we are cooking, cleaning, serving or entertaining them. It’s when those racists fucks have to treat us as equals or spend time around us where we are not required to cater to their wants and needs that the “relationship” starts to show the cracks.

Just stop. Nothing in the south is as segregated as Sunday morning. And I mean NOTHING. The vast majority of conservative white folks wouldn’t be caught dead in a black church unless they were about to burn it down and the vast majority of white liberals only attend a black church when they are trying to solicit votes from a black congregation. And yes, that includes funerals as well.

Once again, just stop. Just because you can cherry pick random examples of black folks not being offended by offensive stuff does NOT denote any type of special relationship. Black people make questionable choices everyday, just like white people. To hold up a few examples as a means to demonstrate any type of solidarity only goes to show how difficult it is to convince people like you that problems actually exist.