And so far you have completely dodged or ignored that any of the woes affecting “the black community” are any things they could fix themselves.
So what? What does this mean, and what do you suggest be done? How would “the totality of the black population in the US” go about doing something? In detail, how would millions of strangers, the vast majority of whom are peaceful, law-abiding, and truly decent Americans, and the only thing they have in common is skin color, go about “fixing themselves”? Please be specific. I think what you’re suggesting is total bullshit, and if you think it’s not, please explain it.
I have stated many time in this very thread that you having read the whole thing want explained to you again?
Out of wedlock childbirths, music and culture that denigrates women, culture that doesn’t promote education (quite possibly due to the single parent households) …
Let’s start there.
Explain to me how it is the fault of the white man
If you don’t like the term culture, then explain to me what it is and why it affects black people to a greater degree than another “race”.
What does this mean? This is just a series of assertions about a culture. Once again, what do you expect millions of strangers, the vast majority of whom are peaceful, law-abiding, and truly decent Americans, and the only thing they have in common is skin color, to do? Physically, and in detail, what are these millions of strangers supposed to do, and how would they go about doing it?
That graph is a little bit confusing and it is frustrating that it is non-interactive. Mr. Coates cannot directly cite the numbers he presumably used to generate that graph, because he had to “call the CDC” to get them and I doubt he’s going to get back to me.
So, here’s the CDC’s 2018 report so we don’t have to worry about him.
On page 5 under subheading Births to unmarried women it states that 28.2% of births to non-hispanic white women were non-marital. 69.4% of births to non-hispanic black women were non-marital. I’m not going to try (yet) to break those down into raw numbers, but it seems to me that if white women have a lower percentage of out of wedlock births than black women (less than half), and white women outnumber black women 4 to 1, that there is a huge disparity there.
I think you’re making a math error here. Those numbers are per capita – so there’s a disparity, but it’s relatively small, if I’m reading it right. The difference in amount of white and black women are irrelevant, since the numbers presented are per thousand (capita).
You could be right, but show me where this math is wrong: According to https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/fertility-and-birth-rates there were 57.2 live births per thousand non-hispanic white women. 63.1 live births per thousand non-hispanic black women.
If we combine that with data from the CDC percentages of non-marital births by race, there were approx 16.13 non-marital live births per thousand non-hispanic white women, and 43.79 non-marital live births per thousand non-hispanic black women. That disparity does not seem “relatively small”.
But again, I’m not a statistician, so I’m open for correction.
Okay, that seems right to me (though I’m also not a statistician). I guess it depends on what you consider “relatively small”. To me, that’s still pretty small, since it’s a difference in like ~2% and ~4% of white and black women, respectively, giving birth without being married.
Your looking at the wrong number … as usual to avoid the thing smacking you in the face
44-16 != 2% or 4%
16 per thousand is 1.6% (i.e. ~2%).
This math fact is brought to you by 3rd grade arithmetic!
I’ll note, Kearsen1, that you still haven’t answered my questions in post 143, which were meant very seriously.
And I’ll note iiandyiii, that you haven’t answered mine which predated yours…
Why should they be held responsible for fixing what we broke?
It’s like you burn down my house then blame me for not rebuilding it fast enough or well enough. You wreck my property then sidle up to the fence to complain that my hovel is lowering property values.
But I did. I answered what I understood, and asked for more clarification on the questions that didn’t make sense to me.
They aren’t responsible for fixing what we broke, we fixed that, and in some minor cases are still fixing things. It is not the job of the government to fix all ails and woes. It is the job of the government to provide equal opportunities and for the last 50 years or so they have done that. Any attempt at redress or compensation (at this late date) is rightly seen as racism in reverse.
They missed the opportunity to give 40 acres and a mule. Slaves, and in most cases, direct ancestors of slaves are long dead.
And Cheesesteak you misunderstand, I am not the one complaining. And not to seem crass, but they didn’t have a house to burn down in the beginning, they had nothing. There is an argument to be made that they are lagging and rightly so because of the roadblock they had early on. But those roadblocks have been removed, we should start seeing anyone affected thus, succeed. We are, just not fast enough for some when it i easy to blame all the ails and woes on RACISM!
I will complain about the government misusing dollars to affect something that I see to be a direct causation of what they themselves choose.
People have free will, you make the choices you make and you live with the consequences of the choice.
It is on you to show me how they don’t have any other choices.
iiandyiii, im not interested in your circular arguments. When you can let me know the failings you see in the black community and the choices they make and WHY they are disproportionally represented in a number of areas that contribute to keeping them down, we can discuss your other concerns.
No, we didn’t and that’s the point. I’d argue the main point of disagreement is here. We put a slight bandaid on it but didn’t actually fix it. It’s exactly like @Cheesesteak said with the house burning analogy - we put out the fire we started, but didn’t actually provide real assistance to rebuild the house (in this analogy we maybe provided a 10% discount on building materials and then decided we did all we could). And some people thinking that compensation or redress is “reverse racism” (laughably in my opinion) prevents us from actually fixing it.
Do you at least understand that this is the heart of the disagreement – that we believe the government and society still hasn’t come close to having “fixed that”, and that we think very significant inequalities of opportunity and access to basic needs and services remain?
You already asked this, and I answered partly and asked for clarification on the other parts. How do groups make choices? Physically and in detail, please describe the process of “the black community” making a choice (any choice!). How does this work? I honestly don’t understand. You’re asserting that an extremely disparate group of millions of strangers, the vast majority of whom live peaceful lives, make mostly good choices in their lives, and treat others with respect is making “choices” and otherwise doing bad things. Please explain this in detail – I really, truly, honestly do not understand. What bad “choices” is my wife making? How about my sisters in law, or my infant son? How about my neighbor who owns his home with his partner and has worked in the same job for 30 years? If they’re making all the right choices, does that mean they’re not part of “the black community”? If they are, then how does this compute – you assert that “the black community” is making bad choices, and yet my wife and neighbor and infant son are part of that yet are doing nothing wrong?
You’re throwing out broad-brushing BS instead of actual thought, IMO. What are you saying black people should do – not just my family and neighbors, but all the other millions of strangers? I don’t understand. Please help.
I am assuming that your wife made a good choice, or some combination of good and some bad choices but choosing to have a child with you was in her eyes and I assume yours, a good choice. Let’s start with this minutae.
THAT is one way the black community (which we already established as all black people) can help themselves. Another that I brought up, education importance. And another, music popularity that adversely affects the black community and denigrates women, commonly referred to as gangster rap that is deified and promotes bad choices along with the denigration of women (as evidenced in the black community)
You are aware that gangsta rap hasn’t existed as a popular art form since the early 2000s, right? It basically was in vogue from 1985-2005. It seems pretty disingenuous to hold up a style of rap that hasn’t been relevant for 15 years as the reason for black community woes. And if you didn’t know this, it appears you aren’t even the slightest aware of what the black community values at all.
IIRC, his wife isnt African-American.