Thanks! But what can I say, I’m color-blind!
Seriously, though, thanks.
One technique I read about in a veteran’s account in a paper had the last ship of the convoy holding rope nets out over the side of the ship (I’m guessing similar to the ones you see troops using to disembark) for survivors to grab onto. After that, they were on their own.
The merchant men of WWII went through some hellish experiences, that’s for sure.
A client of mine had a man go o/b off a bulk carrier off the Queensland coast. They picked him up pretty quick. Stopping a hundred thousand tonnes of bulk carrier takes a while. They’re built for economy not acceleration, deacceleration or turning quick. He fell while working on a stuck pilot ladder.
He was lucky for a few reasons. Firstly, he was working with other crew at the time and the instant he went over, his crewmates were on the radio to the bridge, who took a position immediately. He was also lucky that he went o/b at a place where there was enough searoom to turn around. This happened inside the Great Barrier Reef: in many places they would have been in restricted waters and wouldn’t have been able to turn (only stop in a straight line, which takes longer).
When I was yachting, we had it drilled into us that if someone went o/b, the first thing you do is chuck the lifebuoy with the EPIRB, the second is you dive into the wheelhouse and slap the big red “man overboard” button on the GPS, which records the location then comes up with a directional indicator back to that location, the third is you go back on deck and point at the guy while screaming for help, and keep pointing at him so you don’t lose sight of him. For all that, the skipper on the yacht on which I crossed the Atlantic said that basically, if we went o/b mid-atlantic out of land based rescue range we would probably not survive.
I am confused, does this mean bulk carriers have no ship’s boat to deploy?
The Navy never worried about turning around the large Ships like Battle Ships and Carriers, but they do deploy small boats and rely on Frigates and Destroyers to help out. I would think a bulk carrier or tanker would at least of some sort of rescue boat. This leaves time for the large heavy ship to slow down or turn gradually. Now if the Sea was very rough, I am sure a good captain would not launch the small boat and endanger more crew to try and save one. However, there should at least be a boat to give the Captain the option.
Jim
A bulk carrier will have conventional lifeboats but that is all, usually. They are not very quick to deploy. Deploying them while the ship is moving, and in open ocean, is not easy at all as I understand it.
Naval vessels have vast numbers of crew, and nothing much to do most of the time except maintain stuff and practice doing stuff. Bulk carriers have tiny crew and are constantly busy. The do the minimum lifeboat drills required and that’s it. Lifeboat deployment takes a while.
This sounds like a great reason not to join the merchant marines. When my Grand Father was in the Merchant Marines, the crews were larger, but I guess as I am talking about WWII, there is probably a lot more automation and the equipment is probably more reliable these days.
Thank you for the information, I am still amazed, but it does make sense.
Jim
Naval crews are incredibly busy. There’s a lot to do to maintain stuff, there’s a lot of stuff to practice, and there’s a lot of day-to-day job stuff also.
Monty’s recall of the procedure is good. I was a deck seaman for two years and have been involved in real man overboard drills. They usually try to fool you by calling “Man Overboard, Man Overboard […]” and then only a little bit later saying “This is only a drill.” But I can say that you know when it’s a real one. I jumped out of the top rack underneath the foremost part of the ship (focsle), landed in my coveralls and boots and we had the boat in the water in under 3 minutes.
My recollection of the overall procedure is something like this (assume it’s night time, the worst possible case):
[ul]
[li]Aft lookout spots something in the water, or sees someone go overboard[/li][li]He immediately (before calling it in) uncaps a flare and throws it in the water[/li][li]He calls “Man overboard, Man overboard, Starboard/Port side” to the bridge over the sound powered telephones[/li][li]The Lee Helmsman relays the message to the Officer of the Deck[/li][li]The Officer of the Deck instructs the Boatswain’s Mate to announce Man Overboard to the entire ship[/li][li] The Officer of the Deck instructs the helmsman to turn the ship away from the swimmer as hard as he can so he doesn’t get run over. e.g., if it is “Man Overboard, Man Overboard, Starboard Side,” the Officer of the Deck will say “Helmsman, Left full rudder!” … “Left Full Rudder Aye!” (I was a master helmsman, so I often did this during drills)[/li][li]Half of the seaman go to the focsle and prepare to raise him up if necessary[/li][li]Search and Rescue swimmers get dressed and head to the rescue boat in the aft of the ship[/li][li]The other half of the seaman load up the rescue swimmer and drop the boat in the water[/li][li]They try their best to find them with the boat and spotlights.[/li][/ul]
The sad truth is that it is incredibly difficult to find them at night and they often die. Luckily for us, no one ever actually fell over - only false alarms.
Sure, like I said. But you have enough crew for battle, but you’re only in a battle an insignificant percentage of the time. So the crew have time to maintain things as they should be. They may be very busy doing that, but at least they are doing that. Commercial vessels are crewed to the level required by their every day work, with just enough left over to satisfy regulations.
Frankly, if one is looking for reasons not to join the merchant marine, there are bigger, better ones available.
Aye, Matey, that be true. I was not thinking of a career change any way. 
(old Navy joke)
Q: Why do you have to be over 6 feet tall to join the Coast Guard?
A: So if you fall overboard you can walk to shore.
Peanuthead. US Navy 1968 - 1972
In peacetime I suppose there is a requirement to do everything possible. There was a news article years ago about a woman who fell overboard on a cruise ship. Her husband looked all over for her and then reported to the crew that he couldn’t find her. The ship was searched without any success. So they turned around and backtracked along the trail of junk that had been thrown overboard, whereupon the found her swimming, lowered a boad and picker her up. Quick thinking captain, lucky lady.
In wartime it’s another matter. No one is going to risk the loss of a ship to save one person. In a convoy none of the ships will stop. Even the escorts won’t do anything. To find and recover an individual at sea is a time consuming process. During that time the convoy is without one escort, and there often aren’t evough of them. In addition after a considerable time spent looking, with or without success, the escort now has to catch up and during that time is itself all alone, without support and subject to attack.
That’s just not true. It takes days or weeks to get anywhere on a ship - stopping for a couple of hours is not that big of a deal. They WILL stop if someone goes overboard. That’s the call of the ship’s commanding officer of the ship, and I GUARANTEE he will stop. Can you imagine the morale of the crew when someone everyone knows disappears and everyone pretends to notice?
You might be able to contrive an extreme situation where it was impossible for them to stop. Fact of the matter is that in modern day naval warfare we are launching missiles, jets and sending in marines - not firing canons at eachother in a heated battle.
In fact, these drills (along with general quarters) are practiced more often in a time of war. It would even be possible to drop the boat in the water or send out a helicopter, let the ship keep going and have them catch up whether successful or not in finding the man.
Agree or disagree, our Navy has been in a time of war for some time now. That’s why it’s called the “War in Iraq” by our leadership, and our troops in the region are getting hazard pay as if they were at war. And yes, they stop for man overboard.
That was a bit hurried, sorry. Should have been: "That’s the call of the ship’s commanding officer, and I GUARANTEE he will stop. Can you imagine the morale of the crew when someone everyone knows disappears and everyone pretends not to notice?
Yeah, but the Navy isn’t expecting enemy submarines to start launching torpedoes at our convoys any time soon. WWII was a different story.
Your point is valid, but I suspect that David Simmons who served in WWII is not considering this current war as a “Naval War” where ships are in danger at sea. They are not in any particular danger at sea from other ships and they do not operate under any of the conditions that covered WWII. We already spoke of boats and Helicopters in the thread. Convoy duty is very different from current naval operations. I believe that is from where the confusion is arising.
Jim
I don’t understand. Who threw the junk overboard? Was it done on purpose or does a cruise ship throw that much junk overboard routinely? :eek:
[QUOTE=alterego]
…
[ul]
[li] The Officer of the Deck instructs the helmsman to turn the ship away from the swimmer as hard as he can so he doesn’t get run over. e.g., if it is “Man Overboard, Man Overboard, Starboard Side,” the Officer of the Deck will say “Helmsman, Left full rudder!” … “Left Full Rudder Aye!” (I was a master helmsman, so I often did this during drills)[/li][/ul]
…
Does that mean “Left full rudder” is the command for turning to starboard (which would be a counterintuitive wording)? In boating license class we were told to turn the boat towards the side where the person fell off, in order to turn the stern away from that side (as the person is not going to be in front of the bow of the boat that they fell off of). Or is it different with larger vessels?
Displacement hulls tend to piviot on the bow when turned.
The best thing to do is move the stern and propellers away from the person in the water.
Now, if you don’t like the person…
YMMV