Stopping a ship for a few hours is an enormously big deal when you are moving in a convoy across dangerous waters infested with German or Japanese submarines (depending on the theatre in question.) The OP is talking about a fictional incident in the movie “Flags of our Fathers” which is a movie set during WWII. David Simmons was specifically speaking about naval procedure in a convoy during that particular time period.
The extreme situation was one seen thousands of times throughout World War II, which is the backdrop to the OP’s question and the fictional (but probably realistic) incident shown in the film in question. Your post is a direct response to someone who was in fact talking about procedures over sixty years ago, not modern naval warfare.
Helicopters were fairly new in 1945 and were not so widely implemented that one could expect them to be routinely available for search and rescue purposes in the sort of condition discussed by the OP in reference to the film Flags of Our Fathers.
So, how can you say that you know when it’s a real one, if you’ve never experienced a real one?
Jake, I think the point is that a cruise ship is full of tourists, and a lot of tourists litter. The ship probably has rules against it, but realistically, there’s going to be some littering anyway.
The incident with the woman overboard that I wrote of was sometime in the 1970’s as I recall. We were a lot stupider about trashing the oceans then than now. I suspect that these days every effort is made to keep people from throwing junk overboard.
And to those of you who are outraged at the idea of sailing off and leaving someone who has accidently fallen overboard, I assure you, that is exactly what was done. Ships just plain could not risk stopping and becoming a sitting target for any U-boats or Japanese submarines that might be in the area.
As to the scene in the movie I think it possible that in a large task force such as the fleet that took the marines to Iwo Jima the situation might be a little different. It is at least possible that a DD or DE might be assigned to search for the individual. It would be pretty well known whether or not there were submarines in the area. Knowing there weren’t a DD or DE could search for the person and if found, sweep the area with sonar to insure no subs. Then a small boat could be dropped and the ship immediately gotten underway again. And again, before stopping to recover the boat a sonar sweep could me made and the time of the stop minimized. All in all, though, it would be risky venture and I’m inclined to doubt that it would be done. For one thing, you couldn’t just call a DD on the radio because that reveals your presence and location. So communication must be done by flags or by Morse code using light guns. All of that takes time. The ship that lost the man has to signal the fleet command which then has to hunt up a DD and signal them making sure they understand what it is that has happened and where. Meanwhile the fleet is churning along an leaving the poor guy behind. It’s really a pretty complicated operation in a fleet, at sea in hostile waters, not wanting its presence revealed. If you think leaving some behind is bad, you should imagine what would happen if a ship full of people were to be lost in such an operation.
I do know that a DD trailed carriers when they were recovering or launching planes to pick up any pilots that were unlucky enough to wind up in the drink. However, the rescue vessel was on alert and could see the accident and knew where the person was so finding them wasn’t a problem. In addition it all took place in the middle of a task force that was constantly searcvhing for subs. However, this is an entirely different case than that of someone falling overboard totally unexpectedly and you have to conduct a search.
It took me a second to figure out what he meant. I think that there were man overboard drills (this is only a drill), and then there were actual non-drill man overboard calls which ultimately turned out not to actually be persons having fallen overboard, but rather false alarms.
When racing large sailboats around the world and you are running with a spinnaker set in the Southern Ocean, if a man goes overboard, he is left.
They wear survival suits but not the kind that will keep them alive for hours in near freezing water.
Those racing boats take an easy 45 minutes to just get stopped without dismasting and then maybe 2 hours to get back to the place the guy went over and he has most undoubtedly moved. Ever try to find something a few feet tall in 10-15 waves from a deck that is maybe 6-7 feet off the water.
You don’t fall in. You never make a mistake with your safety line. (That is what the survival suit is for, it will usually keep you alive the amount of time that it takes to get you back onboard.)
If you make a mistake, you turn you back on the boat and die like a gentleman.
If you won’t accept those conditions, you will not crew in the Southern Ocean Races.
In the open ocean, the boat comes first. Without the boat, everyone usually dies.
Has that ever happened before? Is it an idea that’s never been tested in modern times or something akin to people left behind on Everest? Which IIRC has happened.
There’s a story of a ship in WW2 carrying evacuees (children) from Britain to Canada. The convoy was under attack and the children were put into lifeboats, just in case. Something happenned and one of the lifeboats suddenly dropped part-way and turned, spilling the children into the sea. They did not stop but left the children and would not lower a boat with a man to rescue them.
I’m incredulous that a human being would be sacrificed because it’s too much trouble to look for them while racing! War’s one thing; seeing who can cross the finish line first is quite another. Cite?
GusNSpot is correct about ocean racing being a dangerous sport and about the short time it takes do die in the cold Southern Ocean. It is also very dicey to spot a person in the water from a bobbing sailboat. It doesn’t happen often, but racing sailors have been lost overboard. Racing boats are required to carry Man Over Board poles, which are ejected immediately. When deployed, an emergency positioning transmitter switches on, a float inflates, and the pole bobs around upright with a strobe on top. That’s no guarantee of rescue, though. The sailor has to get to the pole, and when the boat loops back, the pole is still hard to spot in the waves.
The part I question is the part about taking 45 minutes to turn around. Now, I know those round-the-world sailors fly a spinnaker in conditions where no sane sailor would raise a chute, but I’m pretty sure they can douse a spinnaker and turn around in less time than that. They are not only very daft, but also very competent sailors.
The odds are somewhat better than they were in the 70s. Crews are in computer communication with all the other boats and with fans around the world. There’s also an obligation to rescue other racers. Accounts of races occasionally have stories of one boat doubling back to save another crew. Race officials not only honor such deeds, but race times are adjusted to make up for the time lost. It is still insanely dangerous, and yet they still do it.
After a day or two, crewmembers know they won’t wear dry clothes again for months. Sleep is never for more than 4 hours at a time. Belowdecks, everything is stripped out to save weight. Beds are canvas slings, and the hull is constantly booming in the waves. Meals are reawakened from bags of dehydrated stuff. There must be something glorious about round-the-world racing, to make people want to do it again and again.
I’m trying to figure out what could have happened. The only way I can picture four sailors going over the side together is if they were standing on the main deck and a large wave swept over the hull. Crewmembers often man the decks while in relatively sheltered waters to assist with lines and to allow the pilot to disembark onto the tugboat. (Once the sub gets into more open waters, everyone goes below, and the deck hatches are buttoned up, leaving only the personnel manning the sail.)
All of the men on the deck would be wearing large, bulky, Type I PFDs, but maybe hypothermia set in before all of the men could be rescued.
If the waters were rough, and the men were still on the main deck for some reason, they should also have been in harnesses…
