This happened here in Seattle over the weekend. While it’s disturbing that the killer did this and murdered six people in the process (and then himself, thankfully) but two of the dead were 14 and 15 years old. That’s very disturbing, considering they were out all night at a rave and then went to a home filled with people in their 20’s and 30’s to party well into Saturday morning. The childrens’ parents should be held responsible for their deaths too, in my opinion, for letting their kids stay out all night like that.
I saw the father of the 14-year-old on the news and while he was understandably upset over the violent death of his little girl, he seemed to show no remorse over the fact that he had let her stay out all night long in places where anything might happen to her. In fact, I got the definite feeling that he let her go to raves and all-night parties on a regular basis. I understand about giving a young teen some latitude in order to keep them rebelling too much but this is dispicable. He should be charged with child endangerment and any other children of his should be taken out of his custody.
Apparently, the rave community is supposed to be close-knit and caring of one another. That doesn’t mean that bad things don’t happen. Ecstasy, other drugs and alcohol make minors (adults too) vulnerable to those who wish to take advantage of them or do them harm. I find it hard to believe that rape does not happen from time to time, no matter how caring the majority of these party-goers may be. Now it has just been demonstrated that other terrible things can happen too. Why would a parent take that chance with his or her 14- or 15-year-old? I hope the authorities investigate these so-called parents and throw the book at them.
My parents didn’t let me sneak out the back porch, but I did it all the damn time.
I chose not to do drugs. Not my parents.
Keep your kids away from banks, liquor stores, gas stations, Mc Donalds, schools, libraries, shooting ranges, city streets, federal buildings, and hotels. People get shot there too.
If you want to pit the usage of prescription drugs amongst younger people, do that. I’m all for it.
Pitting parents for “letting” their kids engage in these activities is ignorant.
Do you think that all of the 12 year olds on MySpace had there parents sign them up? :rolleyes:
You know nothing about drugs. NOTHING. Caffeine is a drug. Heroin is a drug.
You seem to know absolutely nothing about modern teens as well.
I just hope that your ignorance isn’t being preached to innocent children. Talk about being ignorant…do your research lady.
Yes “Thankfully the guy killed himself”. The deaths of teens are the saddest things ever, deaths of adults are almost laughable.
“Now it has just been demonstrated that other terrible things can happen too.” Yes, you are right. There are specific situations that people choose to go on a shotgun based mass murder. Perhaps you could warn us of the next occurrence?
I don’t know what makes me more upset, the fact that you’re so criminally ignorant, or the fact that nothing positive will come from this reply.
In closing… the children’s parents are to blame for the guy that chose to kill several people with a shotgun.
Actually, the girl’s father has said he did allow her to go as long as she was with ‘trusted friends’.
I’m going to repeat this bigger and bolder, so the next ten posts screaming about how the girl must have snuck out will at least look even more foolish.
Actually, the girl’s father has said he did allow her to go as long as she was with ‘trusted friends’.
Kimera, I’m sorry that your friend had to go through that. If he or she is among the living then he or she will need lots of love and support to get over this. If your friend is one of those who died, then my condolences to you and his or her loved ones.
Thank you, Ensign Edison. These people who habitually put down any and (nearly) every Pitter with generalizations and without fully understanding what the Pitter is saying need a little nudge every now and then.
If you mean parents letting their kids engage in these activities at such a young ageis ignorant of them, then you make a good point.
So you’re perfectly OK with 14-year olds partying all night long with a few friends and a whole bunch of strangers, most of which are much older? Where drugs and alcohol are freely availble, even though they are less likely to handle their effects? If you have or had children of this age, would you allow them do this because they are “modern” teens? If they got raped or hurt by someone who may be drunk or high and wanted to take advantage of little girls, would you be OK with this? What is your honest answer?
No, they are not to blame for the guy that killed these people. They (specifically the father of the 14-year-old) are to blame for making poor parenting decisions that put their children in harm’s way.
Try to remember when you were that age. You may recall that it was a challenging time emotionally and you may have acted out in ways you wouldn’t now that you’re more mature (I hope). Ways that you may now realize were self-destuctive and were ruled by the angst-driven emotions that have such a grip on young teens “modern” or not. Hopefully, you had a parent or guardian who was there to save you from getting into serious trouble by laying down the law. This is part of raising a child. It is called “Setting Boundaries.” It is part of loving him or her and is the foundation that sees them through the rest of their lives.
It’s a sad fact that some teens become out of control, despite their parents’ best efforts. I can’t imagine the emotional pain they must go through, seeing their child on an unstoppable path to destruction.
This was not, apparently, the situation with this particular girl, however. She was a happy kid who liked dancing and meeting new people. There could have been ways this could be accomplished under the father’s supervision or under the supervision of responsible adults. He chose not do that. He chose to let her go into situations that could be dangerous for a kid.
How am I ignorant? What research points against keeping your children out of unsafe situations?
I challenge you to point out where I said that. Like most of your statements, you’ve managed to show your own ignorance by failing to acknowlege what I actually said. Children are more vulnerable. That’s what makes their deaths more of a tragedy.
And, yes, thankfully, he did kill himself. He was armed to the teeth. He could have killed many more or left some of the victims barely clinging to life. A life of being hooked up to machines in a hospital or being mentally or physically incapable of doing anything for themselves until the day they die.
No, I am not clairvoyant. I cannot warn people of impending disaster. I can, however, exercise common sense and try to keep my kids from attending raves and parties that may be unsafe for them. That is not even considering having a mass murderer show up.
No, but I think when responsible parents find out, they put a stop to it pretty darn quick! And what does this have to do with my pit?
Am I to infer that you are against prescription drugs being taken by young teens? Do you mean legally or illegally? If you mean illegally, then I am with you. Prescription drugs in the wrong hands can be harmful. That’s why we have to go to a doctor to get them.
What is your stand on illegal drugs? By your omission, I’m getting the feeling that you are for them. If you are, which ones do you condone and why? Do you believe Ecstasy is OK? Do you know how many women (mainly) have been raped because of this? Do you know how many don’t realize it got slipped into their drinks until it was too late? Do you condone rape? Maybe you should do a some research of your own.
What about heroine, since you mentioned it? It is highly addictive and has ruined many, many peoples’ lives. Yes, there are rich and powerful people who use it but do you think it improves their lives? Most of the time even the mighty fall due to heroine addiction. Us average folks, who can’t afford to go to fancy clinics to get clean, tend to fall a lot faster and harder. I believe all addicts live very unhappy lives. That really isn’t living, is it?
Speaking of which, there’s crack. All you’re guaranteed with crack is that you will be addicted. And then your life and dreams go on a fast downhill ride. No one is immune. No one!
Marijuana, on the other hand, has been proven to have very beneficial effects for cancer patients and others with terrible, painful diseases. Marijuana should be legalized. For medical uses, at least.
Sorry to burst your bubble on my ignorance of drugs but there you have it.
That’s your opinion. My opinion is that you make too many rash generalizations and accusations that have nothing to do with what I said. When you can debate this without all the drama, then maybe I’ll think of you as something other than the true ignorant.
And more than a little inaccurate. The guy had only two guns. A pump-action shotgun, and a semi-automatic pistol. Pretty much identical to the firearms carried in every cop car in America. Armed to the teeth? Not even remotedly.
If you read the articles on the “party,” the shootings occured when some of them were sleeping. It seems to have been more of a gathering of people at that point.
And secondly, how do you know that the drugs were freely based around the party? My friend (and several other ravers I know) doesn’t do anything when she goes to raves. I’m not going to press my friend for details on how readily available the drugs were, or who had them, or if others knew that they had them. Right now, you don’t know if this 14 year old was being exposed to the drugs. There were adults in the house and the father said that he trusted his daughter with those people. I’ve been at parties where some guests brought in drugs which they took themselves off in a bathroom and didn’t involve anyone else in the party. You don’t know that this wasn’t the case.
It’s really pissing me off when I come across news articles that mention the weed and the X and then suggest that the drugs might be involved in the shooting.
Maybe not for a game of “Quake” or “Half-Life”. No rocket launcher? :rolleyes:
I’ve never weighed in on the gun discussions here, because every person I know IRL who owns a gun is a level headed and responsible individual. Two of my cousins are in law enforcement. But a shotgun and a semi-automatic pistol and 300 rounds of ammunition, brought to a party with (presumably) unarmed guests… How much more would you need to bring to qualify as “armed to the teeth”?
Well, if he comitted suicide by shooting himself in the mouth with one of those guns, that’s really pretty accurate…
Anyway, I’m with the OP. Any parent who lets their teenager stay out all night simply cannot pretend to be surprised when the kid is gunned down by a homicidal maniac. I mean, how do you not see that coming?
And I don’t quite understand what difference it makes that he only had two guns (in his immediate possession). I don’t know what quantifies “armed to the teeth,” but he certainly had more than what a reasonable person would consider necessary for his own protection.
I’m going to regret getting sucked into this; I know it.
I consider “armed to teeth” as having more guns than neccesary in the situation, to either defend yourself, or to hunt whatever varmits you’re in the process of hunting. For instance, if you’re out hunting rabbits, you don’t carry a high powered rifle and three hundred rounds. That’s being armed to the teeth.
This guy had a substantial amount of firepower to do plenty of damage, as he did.
Police officers are different, in that they carry enough firepower to immediately defend themselves and defend a large number of people, if neccesary
Besides, its just a phrase.
You have successfully proven that ONE of the teens had permission to go. Bravo sir!
How many people were at that party? How many people were at the rave? Are you suggesting that they were all either old enough to be there, or had parental permission?
We really don’t know enough about this man to judge him. Just because he is not wailing and gnashing his teeth for the press does not mean that he is not just ripping himself up in private.
I wasn’t allowed to stay out all night (and really wasn’t interested to, anyway). And, I know I wouldn’t allow my children (if I had them) to do it. But, I had quite a few friends at that age that were allowed to stay out and party where ever and whenever they pleased (if it makes any difference I was 14 in 1983 - for anyone that wants to say “you’re old as dirt and times have changed”). Different people have different ways of raising their children - unfortunately, something tragic happened in this case, but I think the fault is laid firmly at the door of the shooter.
He had 300 rounds of amunition, that is up to 300 dead people, so I am glad he killed himself when the first cop showed up instead of taking hostages or trying to ‘up his score’.
We don’t know how responsable as parents the parents were. But any amout of poor parenting doesn’t mean squat when considering culpability in these teenagers deaths.
Parents shouldn’t allow their kids to attend unsupervised raves. Show me where I said they should.
Again, parents shouldn’t allow their kids to attend unsupervised raves.
Pitting this one father, is IMO acceptable. Pitting all of the dead teens parents, is to assume that they all had knowledge of what their kids were doing. There is nothing to support such a claim.
But you can hope that the book gets thrown at the dead teens parents.
You don’t have all the facts, neither do I. Yet, you accuse the parents (plural) of being irresponsible.
Parents do not know every little thing that their kids do. You seem to think that any number of the parents knew their kids were at this rave.
You imply that I condone rape? You imply by my omission that I condone drug use? WTF?
Next time I start an OP I will. I suggest you do the same.