Science is frequently implemented incorrectly and just because you have read some sentences somewhere that say "Scientists say… " does not mean that Science Has Spoken. Sometimes a study will indicate one thing, then another study will indicate the opposite, more studies, more “answers,” etc. It’s not nearly as simple and straightforward as believing in “science” as if it’s some kind of religion and to think it is is to completely misunderstand science.
Our understanding of the immune system is not complete. The idea that one should put some actual consideration into what risks to take in light of this fact is not absurd or idiotic, and the desire to protect one’s own health is no more selfish than other decisions we all make every day.
As has already been said, influenza is a respiratory illness. It isn’t a stomach/intestinal illness. You may have had what is colloquially called the “stomach flu.” They are not the same disease.
Do you understand what a vaccine is? If you say no, go look it up. If you say yes, but you still wrote the above, go look it up.
This thread should be linked to every time anyone on this forum starts crowing about the smartest board on the internet. It’s an embarrassment.
I am well aware of what a vaccine is, but why don’t you go ahead and enlighten me as to what specific aspect of the definition you think I do not understand?
Why they work, what they do, why they are not just “doctor says,” why their use is not superstition, conspiracy theory, arrogance, blindness, foolishness, gullibility, stupidity, anecdotal, unresearched, arbitrary, risky, woo, purely for the benefit of doctors/lawyers/big pharma, unnecessary, talked about by Nostradamus, causative of autism, a plot to enslave mankind, useless, optional, worse than the disease, or in any way, shape, or form controversial for anyone claiming to have a room temperature or above IQ.
You’re just listing a bunch of crap that has little to do with anything I’ve said, and you’ve said nothing that indicates that you actually understand the underlying mechanisms of various vaccinations. Since medical science does not actually understand the immune system well, the potential harmful effects of a vaccination to a particular individual are impossible to determine. The risk to the population as a whole is slim, but it isn’t zero. Unfortunately, figuring out precisely who will be affected is not something we can do yet.
Scientists, researchers, doctors, pharma developers, public health policy makers are just people. They want grant money, jobs, raises, promotions, degrees, etc. At the end of the day, they just want to go home like the rest of us. There need not be a conspiracy theory going on for them to give advice that turns out not to have been the best thing for us. We all know that drugs are pushed to market and pushed on patients/consumers to their detriment. Doctors prescribed Thalidomide, which was created by non-infallible human scientists, and that’s just one example.
If you think vaccinations are not controversial, maybe that word does not mean what you think it does. You think they shouldn’t be, but your wishes are not the world’s commands, and the controversy is most definitely real.
Mocking people that have low IQs is not a sign that you are intelligent, by the way.
I took my 4 kids to the local CVS and we all got the shots yesterday. It was quick, the nurse was friendly, and there wasn’t even a co-pay (the nurse was of the opinion that the insurance company should be paying people to get the shot). Last night my arm ached badly, but nothing at all compared to having the real flu.
The worst time I ever had it was when me, my husband and all 4 kids came down with it at the same time. The sickest day was on Christmas, when even the little ones felt so bad they had no interest in opening presents. We were all so miserable, and I still had to drag myself out of bed to check on the kids, even when I felt like dying.
We’ve gotten the shots ever year since, and never had the flu again.
Who discovered the problems with thalidomide? Was it random-ass people on a message board or doctors and scientists?
I got the flu every year like clockwork and felt like crap for 10% of the year.
Then by accident, I participated in “flu” vaccination program at my work place. I don’t remember much after the shot, other than the strange realization that I had been sucked into a vast conspiracy which involved Big Government, Big Pharma, and the Krispy Kreme Corporation which used a mysterious bribe called a “Honey-Glazed” as a “reward” for the “experiment.” They seem to have some sort of mind-altering substance, however, as I was compelled to always stop off at a Krispy Kreme bakeries every time I saw one on my way to work…
“How could a flu shot do that?” I asked myself. “What will happen to me?” I thought. But I was too frighten to tell anyone else else my fears. I knew that forces beyond my imagination were at work here.
Eventually, I realized I was doomed: in the 20+ years I’d taken those shots, I only came down with two mild cases of the flu. Maybe I’m being autistic, but I find it hard to communicate with other people that flu shots are actually more dangerous because they make you feel less sick then you should be.
There were other costs: How did I manage to save $50,000+ in sick leave (again, over 20 years)? Clearly, Big Government (along with the airlines, the hotel industry, and vacation package providers) worked together behind the scenes to allow me to enjoy my time off in relaxing, carefree ways, rather than allowing me to feel like crap laying in bed for weeks on end, and wishing I was dead. Bastards!
But my inner demons torment me the most: I’ve become the disciple of the evil Lord Crueller, whom I’m compelled to worship two to three times a week, and resides as one of the despotic members of the Krispy Kreme pantheon.
Kids, flu shots ruined my life–don’t let them ruin yours!
You get donuts for a flu shot?!
How the hell do I get in on the conspiracy?! All I got for my flu shot today was a Band-Aid!
Why do you trust the doctors who told you that you had an autoimmune disorder but not the ones who advise people to get a flu shot?
10,000+ deformed babies were born before anyone did anything.
I wonder how many babies’ mothers chose not to take the risk of this drug and thus spared their offspring being part of this group.
The thalidomide problem lasted for 3 years. It took less than 3 years for researchers to identify what caused 10,000 babies in 46 countries to be born deformed, and that was before information was easily shared between countries in real time. Flu shots have been in use and studied for 34 years during a time when information is easily and widely shared.
There’s just no comparison.
I would like to clarify that am actually not anti-vaccination, and am fully vaccinated even beyond US recommendations with the exception of the flu. My offspring is also fully vaccinated and I’ve even opted for the non-required vaccinations as they became available. It is sheeplike obedience to medical dictates and uncomprehending misguided “science-worship” that I take issue with, not vaccines in general.
Prior to my last trip overseas, a friend and I dutifully updated our vaccinations accordingly. This landed him in the hospital for several with meningitis. Now before you say this is impossible, this was the medical consensus, not our personal speculation, and I am not saying that he got meningitis from a meningitis vaccination. Meningitis is an inflammation, not only a bacterial infection. I also experienced these symptoms to a lesser degree but did not seek treatment, as there isn’t any. Both of us are fine now, and I do not regret my choice to receive the vaccinations that seem to have caused this reaction, but to dismiss all vaccinations as completely risk-free rather than worth the small risk, is simply wrong.
And I can respect not liking blind medical worship, really I can. I’m constantly encouraging my patients to ask more, ask about alternate treatments, take control and responsibility for their own health. It’s like, my thing.
But I guess we’ve all got our areas of resistance. Mine is chicken pox vaccine. I just don’t like that one, and think it does more harm than good in the long run. If I didn’t have to give it to my kids to get them into school, I wouldn’t. I have to, because you cannot, in my state, selectively refuse vaccines - only a blanket, religiously based exemption is allowed. Pisses me the fuck off.
It’s just the reluctance with the flu vaccine, particularly, that I don’t grok. It’s just so…safe, against an illness that we really don’t have any other good options for!
First off, we say “the flu vaccine,” but we really mean this year’s formulation of the flu vaccination. This means we are a beta group every year. Maybe last year’s was fine, but that doesn’t mean they won’t screw up this year. Often it is years before we figure out that something is harmful, but in this case, we don’t get those years because every year, the thing is different.
Second, no one knows why my immune system is attacking my body, so why should I trust that basically poking at it won’t trigger a negative reaction? Now you might say getting the flu could trigger it, and I agree, but I don’t get sick often, so I’d rather take the non-100% chance of getting sick than the 100% chance of choosing the vaccination.
Studies are often done on a non-representative sampling of the population, but even ignoring that fact and pretending that they managed to perfectly choose a representative and sufficient group of test subjects, and even if we pretend that they can magically identify all possible negative direct results of the vaccination, the conclusion that it is best for most members of the group to get vaccinated does not mean that the risk is the same for each individual. What if we ignore the egg allergies and blindly include 3 of them in the study and out of 1000 people, they and only they die. If we don’t know they had egg allergies, could still conclude that the vaccine is safe, a few people inexplicably die, but we should all go ahead and get it. If we instead used 1000 egg allergic people, we’d get a different result entirely and conclude that egg allergic people should not get the vaccine.
I have an autoimmune disorder also. Rheumatoid Arthritis. It’s under control with Enbrel. But, since my immune system is compromised, my doctor said if I get the flu it could kill me. He strongly suggested that I get the flu shot every year. I was getting them anyway, but dying just didn’t strike me as something I was ready to accept without a fight.
I was actually NOT told I had an autoimmune disorder until I’d been put on thyroid replacement for several years, and even then it was just part of an off-hand remark by a different doctor. Since there’s actually nothing to be done about it, the knowledge is actually not helpful or useful from a treatment standpoint.
And why must I believe everything any doctor says or nothing any doctor says ever? Luckily, I can read, analyze test results, and evaluate the body of available knowledge, so I don’t just have to seek out the proper professional to blindly obey. I’m the one that lives with these choices, not a doctor, so I’ll make them for myself as they come up.
Certainly I wouldn’t be the one to tell you not to. My doctors have never actually been all that enthusiastic about the vaccination. The conversation is basically “have you gotten a flu shot?” “no, should I?” “meh, that’s up to you.” So I guess I’m not high-risk or they don’t care whether I live or die. Or both!
It’s more like thank god we don’t have smallpox or polio or diphtheria or mumps or measles or hib anymore in the United States rather than any love of doctors or the medical profession. Vaccines have been studied for two hundred years and repeatedly proven both safe and effective for most people. If you cannot get a shot yourself, the smartest thing you can do is urge others to get on to help protect you.
Cite for any of this? Because no, vaccines aren’t controversial. They work. The risks of most vaccine-preventable diseases far, far, far outweigh the risks of vaccines. This includes the flu vaccine.