Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024)

Politics & Elections
901

So let’s say you’re working on a case. First, you need to get evidence. If you’re on the defense side, you get it from the prosecution. If you’re the prosecutor, you get it from law enforcement. And if you’re the defense, once you get it, you might want to test it, or have it inspected, or at the very least speak to your client about it.

And as you investigate these issues, you’ll want to speak to potential witnesses, gather facts, have a conversation with the opposing counsel about everything you have, and see if you can work out a reasonable deal. If you are at an impasse, you go to trial.

So how long should that last?

A few weeks? You might be waiting on lab results, so a few months?

Ok, let’s set a status conference for 2 months from now.

Ok, now let’s do that for another case. Can’t do that same date and time 2 months from now, so let’s set it for the next day, or the day prior, or at a different time.

Now let’s repeat this 100 times, because you have a caseload.

Except, of course, that case load is staggered. Some cases resolve while others get signed up.

And a handful do have to go to trial. Trials kind of put all of the above tasks on hold - we may need to block off 2 or 3 whole days for just one case.

And remember that dozens of lawyers appear before this judge, just as practitioners appear in front of lots of different judges, many in separate counties. So a judge has a much larger docket than any one lawyer probably has cases, but a lawyer may have to be in 2 places at once.

That’s why things move slowly. It’s by necessity.

(If everyone insisted on invoking speedy trial rights, the system would collapse. But first there’d be a ton of trials without relevant evidence available for jurors to consider)

902

He’s not getting special treatment. Poor people with public defenders can “afford” trial.

I truly don’t think the judge cares about the political ramifications of the date. I think the reason that this was set for next March is because that was what worked for the judge and the parties to the case.

Additionally, any decent trial judge is always going to be weighing against being overturned on appeal. The worst thing you could do would be to deny anybody sufficient time to be fully prepared, so as to undercut any later excuse that you denied due process.

903

This may not be current info, but I read long ago that the Philadelphia public defender’s office was quite good, having detectives to bolster the story of defendants who made plausible claims of innocence. And I also read that middle class defendants (middle class, perhaps, because of not having illicit earnings), couldn’t afford that. This was back when Philadelphia judges were known for pushing though trials quickly, a necessity because the DA’s office didn’t make deals.

One judge can’t reform a bad legal system, but he could have gone a bit in that direction.

I’ll just repeat what I quoted before:

“I’m bending over backwards and straining to make sure that he is given every opportunity possible to advance his candidacy and to be able to speak in furtherance of his candidacy . . . ”

I guess we just have to agree to disagree here, because I think any non-ideological judge or prosecutor wants to interfere with electioneering as little as possible, while of course, as you say, wanting not be overturned on appeals. Those concerns have to be balanced.

Given the jury pool, Trump will probably lose at trial. And given the Supeme Court composition, they’ll probably find some mistake by the trial judge, no matter how many months he takes to write up his motion dismissals.

Maybe the judge is more worried about being overturned by a lower appeals court. But, as in major surgery, if you take too long to do a crackerjack job, the job is no longer crackerjack.

904

Which Supreme Court? This is a state criminal case. It’s being tried in New York Supreme Court. If Trump is found guilty the appeal would go to the Appellate Division of the NY Supreme Court, then the New York Court of Appeals. Only after all that would he get to appeal to the US Supreme Court and even then he’d have to raise a federal question. That process would take years.

905

I think the taking of years would be the point. Unless he’d be sitting in jail while the mills of justice slowly ground.

906

Unfortunately it’s unlikely he’ll actually spend any time incarcerated for these particular crimes, from what I’ve read by legal analysts. Not that it would be impossible, but given all the circumstances he probably won’t face imprisonment. You’ll probably have to wait for other convictions before he wears an orange jumpsuit.

907

Makes one wonder why he bothered to plead not guilty, then. Might as well plead guilty, slap down the fine - his base will reimburse him - and walk out saying “See ya, suckers! I’m off to commit more bookkeeping crimes; taxes are for losers! Low energy!”

908

He will never plead guilty or even admit he did something wrong. He’s fighting this in two courts… The court of law, where he will lose, and the court of public opinion, where he is sure he’ll win.

It’s the same reason why he won’t stop defaming E. Jean Carroll, even though he already lost a case against her for doing that, and the more he does it, the greater his liability. The court of law isn’t his priority. His image to “the people” is all that matters.

If he pleads guilty, he looks like a criminal. If he pleads not guilty and loses anyway, he looks like a martyr that the deep state and corrupt liberal establishment is persecuting. So even being found guilty works to his advantage in the way he cares about. Pleading guilty doesn’t, even if it ends things faster and might allow his legal team to work out a deal with the prosecution.

909

This is why I could never be a lawyer. I can’t persuasively make an argument in that I know is complete and utter bullshit.

910

A lot of lawyers won’t do that either. How often you’re called upon to provide BS depends greatly on which specialty you go into and which cases you’ll accept.

Further, the code of ethics says it can’t knowingly be pure BS or you’re flirting with being disbarred. Although admittedly enforcement of this has become rather lax in many states in the last couple of decades.

911

Most lawyers do mundane things like writing contracts or filing patents. They are never in that position.

912

I’ve been a lawyer and judge for 37+ years (tho never a trial lawyer/judge.). I wonder if there is any profession that crams at the last minute before deadlines more than lawyers? It is trained into them in law school, where grades are based on a single semester-ending final exam.

If something is due a month from now, IME it is the unusual lawyer who gets right on it today, and has it wrapped up with weeks to spare. Perhaps they take the initial step, but then it sits until it HAS to be done. Maybe the thousands of lawyers I have interacted with over decades are the excepton, but I doubt it.

Moreover, deadlines are merely suggestions - with some more firm suggestions than others. It is a relatively rare situation in which one cannot request additional time, or file something late (instanter).

Federal DCt judges have very broad expectations of how many matters they are supposed to handle how quickly. But other than that, they have limited real concerns other than avoiding remand/reversal when possible. The system provides for due process, but parties generally act as though they are entitled to UNLIMITED process. And lawyers often like to file every pleading possible - exceeding page and time limits when convenient (and profitable) to them, rather than exercising economy.

Meanwhile, while the case is just sitting there, the lawyer can bill for periodic “file/status review”! :wink:

And I had at least 3 different lawyers make completely BS statements to me just today, that were expressly contradicted by the evidence THEY submitted. So it isn’t exactly rare.

913

I suppose the only hard-and-fast deadline would be the statute of limitations for criminal or civil causes of action – but even then, aren’t there provisions for tolling some of them? And I’m pretty sure murder at least has no statute of limitations.

914

Off the top of my head, I’d say bomb disposal might qualify.

915

Besides college students? Or how about remodelers on HGTV shows?

916

In an NBC report prosecutors today said they have tapes of Trump talking to his attorney about paying the bribe with a check. He should have a life coach who’s an experienced felon to say ‘Man! Don’t say that over the phone. If you’re committing a crime always discuss it in person. Always!’

917

We’ve all heard a portion of this already, back in 2018, haven’t we?

918

By gum Moriarty, I forgot it was in person. D’oh

919

“is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?”

920

'Oh, this? No Mr. Trump!. They’re get well cards for the people you’ve ravaged, you scamp. Wanna sign ‘em?’